some DVD issues

Josh Bass · May 25th, 2005, 04:12 AM

Ok, so when, rendering an MPEG-2 file from Vegas 4, what is the difference between "DVD NTSC" and "DVD NTSC Video Stream", when choosing a template from the MainConcept MPEG-2 Encoder?

Also, It seems that when I create a DVD, my blacks/dark areas are significantly boosted. Am I to assume this is the blacks getting bumped from 0% to 7.5%? It seems to wash out my movie, to some degree--you can see a lot of detail, everywhere, even in areas where it was supposed to be pretty dark. I've also noticed blacks taking on a noticably greenish tinge--though this could just be something that resulted from color correction, amplified by the aforementioned black level boost. Any way to tweak this? Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Lastly, audio. I know you guys told me to render my MPEG-2s in Vegas, and not let Roxio do it as it's getting ready to burn a DVD, so this is likely my fault. However. . .I got to see three of my shorts screened today, luckily by less than ten people. The first one was fine, the other two had audio issues. Some audio stuff would be fine, other stuff would be gone, or barely audible. When I created the original AVIs, they were in stereo, and stereo left and right were the same audio track, essentially. They were all created by the same method, so I don't know why the first short was fine, and the other two weren't. I came back home and played the AVIs that the MPEG-2s were created from with Windows Media Player, and the audio's fine in the same spots that were problematic during the viewing. My only thought as to a solution was to render MPEG-2s, in Vegas, of these movies, and make them all mono, instead of stereo. Lesson learned. Anyone had issues like this?

Rob Lohman · May 25th, 2005, 04:24 AM

If I remember correctly, DVD Video Stream just outputs the video only. While
the other one outputs both video and audio in the MPEG (which you don't
really need or want for DVD).

Are there any settings in the advanced screen when exporting to DVD to set
the black level etc.? If you set Vegas up with the broadcast safe levels
perhaps this problem gets solved as well?

I currently don't have Vegas handy so can't check any of this.

Josh Bass · May 25th, 2005, 05:03 AM

You could be right about the stream thing but, I'm pretty sure I used the "video stream" option for some other MPEG-2s that I rendered, and it has a checkable box to include audio.

It did some really weird crap just now. The file finished rendering, and I tried to play it through Windows Media Player (which plays other MPEG-2s I've encoded the same way), and I get this quick little digital "beep", and then it stops playing. Also, it doesn't show me video, just one of the patterns that accompanies audio only files, just so's you have something to look at.

I'll try messing with the black levels, but it's kind of a time consuming test, since I'd have to burn a DVD just to see the results of my tweaks.

Rob Lohman · May 25th, 2005, 05:29 AM

Might be time for a system reboot? :)

Keep in mind that what you select are TEMPLATES, or defaults. Of course
you have an option to still include the audio (in advanced), but then you
are deviating from the template/defaults.

Josh Bass · May 25th, 2005, 12:30 PM

Righto.

Ok. . .if one were using Roxio to do the actual DVD structuring and burning, what settings would one use to render the MPEG-2s with Vegas's Main Concept encoder?

If one created one's movie with blacks at 0% and maintained that all the way through the process, despite color correction and everything else, what would one do?

Josh Bass · May 25th, 2005, 01:51 PM

Okay, so I did some tests, and I here's what I got so far. Haven't messed with the black issues, just audio right now.

So, keep in mind:

1) creating MPEG-2s in Vegas 4 using MainConcept encoder
2) burning actual DVD disc with Roxio easy media creator 7.

I made three MPEG-2 files, and burned them all to a DVD to see how they played.

One was using them template "DVD architect NTSC video stream" (for which I included audio)

Another was using the DVD NTSC template, default settings

Another was using the DVD NTSC template, changing the audio to mono (to combat the issue I mentioned on the initial post in this thread).

What I found is that the one using DVD NTSC, with default settings, works fine (though there was some parts where the picture stuttered--I think this might be the player, though. I think I've seen this before), audio's there in all the right places. The other two, no audio at all. Apparently, it won't do mono for some reason? What's up with that? Do I need to make the AVI mono first (by selecting left/right audio only), before I create the MPEG-2 in mono? I don't know how the hell I got it to work right before, and so easily. I wish files could tell you what settings within a program were used to create them.

Josh Bass · May 26th, 2005, 01:15 AM

Well, that didn't work. I put the original AVI in the timeline, made the audio mono, left channel only, and rendered the MPEG-2 mono as well. When I burned it to DVD and played it, no audio. In the VEgas timeline, however, the MPEG-2 has audio.

I also noticed it lagging/stuttering again, and in the exact same places as on the last disc I burned.

Rob Lohman · May 26th, 2005, 04:34 AM

Are you saying it is stuttering even with the method that works (DVD NTSC)?
If not, perhaps it is best to see what the exact differences are between the
templates (in the advanced settings)?

What you can also do is convert the track to mono (if that solves your
problem) and then expand it to stereo again (creating two identical tracks)
and then just burn a stereo DVD?

Josh Bass · May 26th, 2005, 11:42 AM

Yes, it stutters even when it works fine otherwise.

On this particular movie I've been using to test these methods, The first shot is somewhat long. It's a CU of a guy looking slightly off cam and talking. At some point, he looks down, and the camera follows the movement of his head. When that happens, that's when it stutters.

I think I tried the mono to stereo thing. . .I can't recall now. I think it came out silent.

Rob Lohman · May 28th, 2005, 04:45 AM

Do you have another authoring program? Or perhaps a burning program (like
a late version of Nero) that can burn DVD Video discs with a supplied MPEG-2
file? If so, try that and see what happens.

I haven't heard of anyone yet that has these kind of problems with Vegas +
DVD Architect for example. It might be that your authoring program is just
not liking what it is getting.

Josh Bass · May 28th, 2005, 08:16 AM

Yeah, Roxio doesn't have much of a reputation (that's what came with my burner). Are there any very cheap or free authoring programs besides it, out there? I don't do commercial DVDs at all, so spending a buttload kinda works against me.

Rob Lohman · May 29th, 2005, 04:01 AM

Well, you could try a demo of Sony's DVD Architect to just see if Roxio is the
problem or not. Otherwise I would look at (a demo of) Nero, it is considered
the best burning application on Windows and it does support basic Video DVD's
(without any menu's I think). However it does cost some money.

Another cheap (haven't used it) DVD authoring program seems to be DVD Lab
(do a search on Google).

That's the best I can come up with. But some demo's at least should help
you figure out where the problem is.

Good luck!

Christopher Lefchik · May 29th, 2005, 08:35 AM

Nero can do DVD menus. In fact, according to their web site Nero now supports animated menus/buttons, background music, and playing a video clip before the menu loads.

http://ww2.nero.com/enu/NeroVision_E...ures.html#menu

Josh Bass · May 30th, 2005, 08:07 PM

So I downloaded a nero demo. . .but it seems to be for CDs? The interface doesn't indicate in any way that it's for burning DVDs (kinda looks like the Windows Media PLayer interface if you put in "skin" mode).

I tried Roxio again, with all my little movies, and the audio's fine, no lag (at least on the player I played the DVD on), but I still have that issue with blacks. It's like it wants you to see everything, so it boosts dark areas, even when they're supposed to be dark and without much detail. Can't find a setting on there to make it stop. Even the black during opening titles is boosted to a grey.

Christopher Lefchik · May 31st, 2005, 07:08 AM

You have to use the NeroVision part of the Nero suite to author DVDs. It should be under Start>Programs>Nero>Nero Digital>NeroVision Express.

May 25th, 2005, 04:12 AM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	some DVD issues - blacks, audio Ok, so when, rendering an MPEG-2 file from Vegas 4, what is the difference between "DVD NTSC" and "DVD NTSC Video Stream", when choosing a template from the MainConcept MPEG-2 Encoder? Also, It seems that when I create a DVD, my blacks/dark areas are significantly boosted. Am I to assume this is the blacks getting bumped from 0% to 7.5%? It seems to wash out my movie, to some degree--you can see a lot of detail, everywhere, even in areas where it was supposed to be pretty dark. I've also noticed blacks taking on a noticably greenish tinge--though this could just be something that resulted from color correction, amplified by the aforementioned black level boost. Any way to tweak this? Anyone know what I'm talking about? Lastly, audio. I know you guys told me to render my MPEG-2s in Vegas, and not let Roxio do it as it's getting ready to burn a DVD, so this is likely my fault. However. . .I got to see three of my shorts screened today, luckily by less than ten people. The first one was fine, the other two had audio issues. Some audio stuff would be fine, other stuff would be gone, or barely audible. When I created the original AVIs, they were in stereo, and stereo left and right were the same audio track, essentially. They were all created by the same method, so I don't know why the first short was fine, and the other two weren't. I came back home and played the AVIs that the MPEG-2s were created from with Windows Media Player, and the audio's fine in the same spots that were problematic during the viewing. My only thought as to a solution was to render MPEG-2s, in Vegas, of these movies, and make them all mono, instead of stereo. Lesson learned. Anyone had issues like this? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 25th, 2005, 04:24 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	If I remember correctly, DVD Video Stream just outputs the video only. While the other one outputs both video and audio in the MPEG (which you don't really need or want for DVD). Are there any settings in the advanced screen when exporting to DVD to set the black level etc.? If you set Vegas up with the broadcast safe levels perhaps this problem gets solved as well? I currently don't have Vegas handy so can't check any of this. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 25th, 2005, 05:03 AM	#3
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	You could be right about the stream thing but, I'm pretty sure I used the "video stream" option for some other MPEG-2s that I rendered, and it has a checkable box to include audio. It did some really weird crap just now. The file finished rendering, and I tried to play it through Windows Media Player (which plays other MPEG-2s I've encoded the same way), and I get this quick little digital "beep", and then it stops playing. Also, it doesn't show me video, just one of the patterns that accompanies audio only files, just so's you have something to look at. I'll try messing with the black levels, but it's kind of a time consuming test, since I'd have to burn a DVD just to see the results of my tweaks. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 25th, 2005, 05:29 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Might be time for a system reboot? :) Keep in mind that what you select are TEMPLATES, or defaults. Of course you have an option to still include the audio (in advanced), but then you are deviating from the template/defaults. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 25th, 2005, 12:30 PM	#5
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Righto. Ok. . .if one were using Roxio to do the actual DVD structuring and burning, what settings would one use to render the MPEG-2s with Vegas's Main Concept encoder? If one created one's movie with blacks at 0% and maintained that all the way through the process, despite color correction and everything else, what would one do? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 25th, 2005, 01:51 PM	#6
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Okay, so I did some tests, and I here's what I got so far. Haven't messed with the black issues, just audio right now. So, keep in mind: 1) creating MPEG-2s in Vegas 4 using MainConcept encoder 2) burning actual DVD disc with Roxio easy media creator 7. I made three MPEG-2 files, and burned them all to a DVD to see how they played. One was using them template "DVD architect NTSC video stream" (for which I included audio) Another was using the DVD NTSC template, default settings Another was using the DVD NTSC template, changing the audio to mono (to combat the issue I mentioned on the initial post in this thread). What I found is that the one using DVD NTSC, with default settings, works fine (though there was some parts where the picture stuttered--I think this might be the player, though. I think I've seen this before), audio's there in all the right places. The other two, no audio at all. Apparently, it won't do mono for some reason? What's up with that? Do I need to make the AVI mono first (by selecting left/right audio only), before I create the MPEG-2 in mono? I don't know how the hell I got it to work right before, and so easily. I wish files could tell you what settings within a program were used to create them. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 26th, 2005, 01:15 AM	#7
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Well, that didn't work. I put the original AVI in the timeline, made the audio mono, left channel only, and rendered the MPEG-2 mono as well. When I burned it to DVD and played it, no audio. In the VEgas timeline, however, the MPEG-2 has audio. I also noticed it lagging/stuttering again, and in the exact same places as on the last disc I burned. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 26th, 2005, 04:34 AM	#8
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Are you saying it is stuttering even with the method that works (DVD NTSC)? If not, perhaps it is best to see what the exact differences are between the templates (in the advanced settings)? What you can also do is convert the track to mono (if that solves your problem) and then expand it to stereo again (creating two identical tracks) and then just burn a stereo DVD? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 26th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#9
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Yes, it stutters even when it works fine otherwise. On this particular movie I've been using to test these methods, The first shot is somewhat long. It's a CU of a guy looking slightly off cam and talking. At some point, he looks down, and the camera follows the movement of his head. When that happens, that's when it stutters. I think I tried the mono to stereo thing. . .I can't recall now. I think it came out silent. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 28th, 2005, 04:45 AM	#10
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Do you have another authoring program? Or perhaps a burning program (like a late version of Nero) that can burn DVD Video discs with a supplied MPEG-2 file? If so, try that and see what happens. I haven't heard of anyone yet that has these kind of problems with Vegas + DVD Architect for example. It might be that your authoring program is just not liking what it is getting. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 28th, 2005, 08:16 AM	#11
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Yeah, Roxio doesn't have much of a reputation (that's what came with my burner). Are there any very cheap or free authoring programs besides it, out there? I don't do commercial DVDs at all, so spending a buttload kinda works against me. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 29th, 2005, 04:01 AM	#12
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Well, you could try a demo of Sony's DVD Architect to just see if Roxio is the problem or not. Otherwise I would look at (a demo of) Nero, it is considered the best burning application on Windows and it does support basic Video DVD's (without any menu's I think). However it does cost some money. Another cheap (haven't used it) DVD authoring program seems to be DVD Lab (do a search on Google). That's the best I can come up with. But some demo's at least should help you figure out where the problem is. Good luck! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 29th, 2005, 08:35 AM	#13
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	Nero can do DVD menus. In fact, according to their web site Nero now supports animated menus/buttons, background music, and playing a video clip before the menu loads. http://ww2.nero.com/enu/NeroVision_E...ures.html#menu

May 30th, 2005, 08:07 PM	#14
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	So I downloaded a nero demo. . .but it seems to be for CDs? The interface doesn't indicate in any way that it's for burning DVDs (kinda looks like the Windows Media PLayer interface if you put in "skin" mode). I tried Roxio again, with all my little movies, and the audio's fine, no lag (at least on the player I played the DVD on), but I still have that issue with blacks. It's like it wants you to see everything, so it boosts dark areas, even when they're supposed to be dark and without much detail. Can't find a setting on there to make it stop. Even the black during opening titles is boosted to a grey. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 31st, 2005, 07:08 AM	#15
Christopher Lefchik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: US Posts: 1,152	You have to use the NeroVision part of the Nero suite to author DVDs. It should be under Start>Programs>Nero>Nero Digital>NeroVision Express.