QuickTime HD codec for DVD next year!

Christopher C. Murphy · June 26th, 2004, 02:12 PM

Then H.264 should be the format we all support!

Murph

Ignacio Rodriguez · June 26th, 2004, 04:11 PM

Does this conference software support polls? We could vote on it and then officially endorse it. Perhaps Apple can send us T-shirts or something :$

Rob Lohman · June 26th, 2004, 05:10 PM

Frederic: if license fees must be paid for MPEG(2) then you can
bet we are paying for them in some form. Through the price
we pay for the encoders. Or perhaps it is factured into discs.
Etc. At least that's what I'm "betting".

Frederic Lumiere · June 26th, 2004, 05:43 PM

Rob,

Exactly! The consumer always ends up picking up the tab.

Graham Hickling · June 27th, 2004, 03:48 PM

This from a longer post on the Premiere Pro Cow forum -

"Adobe is amused by the Apple HD announcement. This is nothing more than a simple format extension for DV to include a low res proxy for the DVCPro HD format. If you actually try to use it you will notice that it needs half or quarter rez to play and still requires a minimum two CPU G5 system. For the same price you can purchase a very nice uncompressed BlackMagic based PC computer with Premiere Pro and add storage. The quality will be uncompressed and you will be able to view your timeline on a real HD monitor from a professional HD-SDI output (not a VGA card out like on the Mac"

The same post also contains some comments about the "lack of full compliance" of JVC with the HDV spec.

The full post is here - I'd be interested in what others here make of this info:

http://www.creativecow.net/forum/rea...6860&forumid=3

Heath McKnight · June 27th, 2004, 04:03 PM

To watch WM9HD, you need Windows XP Pro and a FAST Pentium or whatever processor. So I don't think the thing about a dual 2 ghz G5 is that big of a deal.

You can buy a dual 2 ghz G5, a decklink HD card (until the end of the month it's a grand) and an HD LCD monitor for $5500. Not including a RAID, etc.

hwm

Graeme Nattress · June 27th, 2004, 06:31 PM

I don't know what they're talking about with DVCPro HD - sounds like they're trying to scare people away from FCP. It plays back full rez, doesn't need a G5 (my iMac will play it back). As for an SDI capture of DVCproHD being uncompressed - true, but it doesn't give you any better picture because it started life as compressed, just like DV. If you want to play it back out you can via firewire from the deck, or route it via an SDI card and out to an HD monitor. It's just adobe sour grapes....

Graeme

Frederic Lumiere · June 27th, 2004, 09:02 PM

Graham,

I think you are confusing two things here. We are talking about H.264 not DVCPRO HD. H.264 as an HD DVD Codec for platform independent DVD playing.

The DVCPRO HD argument is a completely different topic.

Graham Hickling · June 27th, 2004, 10:39 PM

You are right - apologies for the diversion...

Heath McKnight · June 27th, 2004, 10:53 PM

No sweat! how about some HDV-friendly FCP filters??? :-)

heath

Rob Lohman · June 28th, 2004, 03:16 AM

Just to add one little thing before going back on topic:

Heath: the post was talking about uncompressed HD. Which
you don't need a fast CPU for to play back. Just a fast harddisk
(array). Like any system.

You are correct in that WM9 HD requires a strong proc.

Frederic Lumiere · June 29th, 2004, 03:34 PM

Take a look at Steve Jobs keynote if you haven't. I was very impressed with H.264

Same bitrate as NTSC DVD but HD resolution. 6 Mbps.

Very impressive!

Heath McKnight · June 29th, 2004, 06:40 PM

Nice!

hwm

Chris Gordon · June 30th, 2004, 01:16 AM

..hates the idea of a Bill Gates HD format (aka WMP9), I feel this is the most logical direction for home HD to take.

The Voom HD satellite service just announced that they will be using WMP9 compression later in the year to provide more HD programming over the same amount of satellite bandwidth.

This seems to be Gates' first serious foray into making WMP9-HD the standard for home delivery. Next comes personal video recorders that record in WMP9-HD... and of course as processor speeds rise, the WMP9-HD format will be able to be played on most home computers.

I already use WMP9-HD all the time. I go from the JVC HD-1 into my Win XP 3.2GHz-HT laptop, edit the footage in Premiere Pro, and then burn the WMP files to a DVD-R or watch the footage on my HD plasma TV.

And with the Terminator 2 HD-DVD, Microsoft has proven that it can also do 1080p on a DVD effectively. (http://www.wmvhd.com)

-Chris Gordon
Producer KABC-TV
Los Angeles

Ignacio Rodriguez · June 30th, 2004, 09:45 AM

Ok. Good. A great technology, although I don't see the advantage over MPEG4, does the same thing, plus MPEG4 already plays on many cell phones. Anyway, it's not the technological capability that actually worries me in this case. Say we all settle for WM9 and it get's built into millions of DVD players worldwide. In 3 years, Microsoft might decide that their encoder is no longer free, or that a license is to be paid to them for every public release of WM9 encoded material or whatever. It's just impossible to say what the Microsoft Corp. might decide to do. Remember, it's a money making machine for it's shareholders, and nothing else, juist like any other corp. Not like ISO, not like IEEE, not like MPEG and so on.

June 26th, 2004, 02:12 PM	#16
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Then H.264 should be the format we all support! Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

June 26th, 2004, 04:11 PM	#17
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Does this conference software support polls? We could vote on it and then officially endorse it. Perhaps Apple can send us T-shirts or something :$ __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

June 26th, 2004, 05:10 PM	#18
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Frederic: if license fees must be paid for MPEG(2) then you can bet we are paying for them in some form. Through the price we pay for the encoders. Or perhaps it is factured into discs. Etc. At least that's what I'm "betting". __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 27th, 2004, 04:03 PM	#21
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	To watch WM9HD, you need Windows XP Pro and a FAST Pentium or whatever processor. So I don't think the thing about a dual 2 ghz G5 is that big of a deal. You can buy a dual 2 ghz G5, a decklink HD card (until the end of the month it's a grand) and an HD LCD monitor for $5500. Not including a RAID, etc. hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 27th, 2004, 06:31 PM	#22
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	I don't know what they're talking about with DVCPro HD - sounds like they're trying to scare people away from FCP. It plays back full rez, doesn't need a G5 (my iMac will play it back). As for an SDI capture of DVCproHD being uncompressed - true, but it doesn't give you any better picture because it started life as compressed, just like DV. If you want to play it back out you can via firewire from the deck, or route it via an SDI card and out to an HD monitor. It's just adobe sour grapes.... Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

June 26th, 2004, 05:43 PM	#19
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Rob, Exactly! The consumer always ends up picking up the tab.

June 27th, 2004, 03:48 PM	#20
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	This from a longer post on the Premiere Pro Cow forum - "Adobe is amused by the Apple HD announcement. This is nothing more than a simple format extension for DV to include a low res proxy for the DVCPro HD format. If you actually try to use it you will notice that it needs half or quarter rez to play and still requires a minimum two CPU G5 system. For the same price you can purchase a very nice uncompressed BlackMagic based PC computer with Premiere Pro and add storage. The quality will be uncompressed and you will be able to view your timeline on a real HD monitor from a professional HD-SDI output (not a VGA card out like on the Mac" The same post also contains some comments about the "lack of full compliance" of JVC with the HDV spec. The full post is here - I'd be interested in what others here make of this info: http://www.creativecow.net/forum/rea...6860&forumid=3

June 27th, 2004, 09:02 PM	#23
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Graham, I think you are confusing two things here. We are talking about H.264 not DVCPRO HD. H.264 as an HD DVD Codec for platform independent DVD playing. The DVCPRO HD argument is a completely different topic.

June 27th, 2004, 10:39 PM	#24
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	You are right - apologies for the diversion...

June 27th, 2004, 10:53 PM	#25
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	No sweat! how about some HDV-friendly FCP filters??? :-) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 28th, 2004, 03:16 AM	#26
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Just to add one little thing before going back on topic: Heath: the post was talking about uncompressed HD. Which you don't need a fast CPU for to play back. Just a fast harddisk (array). Like any system. You are correct in that WM9 HD requires a strong proc. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 29th, 2004, 03:34 PM	#27
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Take a look at Steve Jobs keynote if you haven't. I was very impressed with H.264 Same bitrate as NTSC DVD but HD resolution. 6 Mbps. Very impressive!

June 29th, 2004, 06:40 PM	#28
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Nice! hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 30th, 2004, 01:16 AM	#29
Chris Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 44	As much as everyone on this board... ..hates the idea of a Bill Gates HD format (aka WMP9), I feel this is the most logical direction for home HD to take. The Voom HD satellite service just announced that they will be using WMP9 compression later in the year to provide more HD programming over the same amount of satellite bandwidth. This seems to be Gates' first serious foray into making WMP9-HD the standard for home delivery. Next comes personal video recorders that record in WMP9-HD... and of course as processor speeds rise, the WMP9-HD format will be able to be played on most home computers. I already use WMP9-HD all the time. I go from the JVC HD-1 into my Win XP 3.2GHz-HT laptop, edit the footage in Premiere Pro, and then burn the WMP files to a DVD-R or watch the footage on my HD plasma TV. And with the Terminator 2 HD-DVD, Microsoft has proven that it can also do 1080p on a DVD effectively. (http://www.wmvhd.com) -Chris Gordon Producer KABC-TV Los Angeles

June 30th, 2004, 09:45 AM	#30
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Ok. Good. A great technology, although I don't see the advantage over MPEG4, does the same thing, plus MPEG4 already plays on many cell phones. Anyway, it's not the technological capability that actually worries me in this case. Say we all settle for WM9 and it get's built into millions of DVD players worldwide. In 3 years, Microsoft might decide that their encoder is no longer free, or that a license is to be paid to them for every public release of WM9 encoded material or whatever. It's just impossible to say what the Microsoft Corp. might decide to do. Remember, it's a money making machine for it's shareholders, and nothing else, juist like any other corp. Not like ISO, not like IEEE, not like MPEG and so on. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.