VHS is better than DVD at DVinfo.net

Justin Morgan · June 9th, 2004, 06:57 AM

I have found that when I burn a DVD the quality is actually worse than when I record to VHS. Surely this can't be right?!

I'm using iDVD 2.5 - if I export from Final Cut with 'Quicktime' (MPEG-4) the footage looks horrible - the image is all patchy and messy especially on dissolves. If I export as 'Final Cut Movie' the image quality is perfect but the footage is jerky - especially noticeable on pans.

My output to VHS is perfect.

What's the problem here?

Jeff Donald · June 9th, 2004, 08:09 AM

How long is your material?

Justin Morgan · June 9th, 2004, 08:48 AM

It's only 111 seconds.

Edward Troxel · June 9th, 2004, 09:05 AM

Umm.... DVDs are MPEG2 - NOT MPEG4.

Justin Morgan · June 9th, 2004, 09:17 AM

Oh must be MPEG-2 then. Sorry for the false info.

Mark Sloan · June 9th, 2004, 02:49 PM

Maybe he DID mean MPEG-4. Unless you have DVD Studio Pro you don't do ANY export to MPEG-2 from FCP to use iDVD (right?). You can just put your FCP movie in iDVD and burn away, of if you do the QT thing just leave it as DV. MPEG-4 would explain why it looks horrible, QTs conversion to MPEG-4 is lousy... can't wait for Apple to fix it.

Peter Moore · June 9th, 2004, 04:49 PM

Export from Final Cut Pro with DV or uncompressed. I don't know what your other options are, but that will solve the problem.

Justin Morgan · June 10th, 2004, 02:13 AM

After a bit of checking I've noticed that the exported files are okay (a Final Cut Movie) looks the best - it is after the DVD has been burned and is played back that it is poor. Does this mean that iDVD 2 just isn't good enough?

Rob Lohman · June 10th, 2004, 02:27 AM

Is iDVD doing any MPEG encoding? If so, what settings are you
using? Do NOT expect a program to do magic for you. Programs
rarely work their best with the default settings. MPEG encoding
is a real "craft" requiring changing settings and fiddling with them
till you get it perfect!

Justin Morgan · June 10th, 2004, 02:36 AM

I'm pretty sure iDVD just does it all for you - no settings at all 'just wash and go'.

Jeff Donald · June 10th, 2004, 05:35 AM

iDVD is an entry level program that has fixed settings for the encoding. It uses one setting for short programs and a lower setting for longer programs. None of the encoding settings are user adjustable. If higher quality results are desired than I suggest you look at DVD SP.

Mark Sloan · June 11th, 2004, 02:16 PM

The latest version of iDVD does have a setting for something like "Encode in background" in the preferences, I think it is only available if the disc is under 1 hour, but that might affect the quality. In general though, I believe it only has 3 compression settings that it does automatically, 1 hour and less, 1 hour to 1.5 hours, over 1.5 hours. Mine have all looked great (not so good on the monitor, but on a TV).

Justin Morgan · June 14th, 2004, 02:28 AM

Well, I really don't understand what's going on. My footage is only 111 seconds so iDVD should be using the best quality settings.

I've been examining my files before burning and have noticed that:

• Exported as 'Final Cut Movie' the footage is slightly soft - ie blurred, the movement is smooth (not jerky).

• Exported as Quicktime using 'best' quality the footage is crisp, the movement is smooth (not jerky) but the colours are very patchy/blocky like a mosaic (this is bad throughout but is very noticeable on dissolves).

Once burned to DVD the footage is:

• Quicktime version - perfect except for the patchy and blocky colours.

• Final Cut Movie' - slightly blurred footage but the movement has become jerky (it's like this throughout but is especially noticeable on pans).

So does nobody else have these problems? What can I do or try?

The quality is unnacceptable and I'm thinking of upgrading to Final Cut 4 and iDVD 4. I really resent having to do this though and it will be very expensive.

Rob Lohman · June 14th, 2004, 02:39 AM

Exporting to QuickTime says nothing. QuickTime is just a wrapper
for codecs. The question is which codec is being used. Each codec
has its own settings and footage it works best on.

In such cases you want to go with uncompressed (especially
since it is such a short movie). So when exporting there is
hopefully an option button, or advanced or settings etc. Pick
uncompressed as codec and that's all you should have to do.

I'm not a Mac person so I can't check on how this is supposed to
work.

Justin Morgan · June 14th, 2004, 02:49 AM

When exporting to Quicktime I get a button that says 'options' when I click that I get a pop-up window that has a slider for quality - I slide it up to 'best' (the highest setting). I'm also un-selecting the 'prepare for web streaming' option. Can't see anything else I should be doing. Am I missing something?

PS why is the 'Final Cut Movie' version blurred!? What's that all about?!

June 9th, 2004, 06:57 AM	#1
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	VHS is better than DVD I have found that when I burn a DVD the quality is actually worse than when I record to VHS. Surely this can't be right?! I'm using iDVD 2.5 - if I export from Final Cut with 'Quicktime' (MPEG-4) the footage looks horrible - the image is all patchy and messy especially on dissolves. If I export as 'Final Cut Movie' the image quality is perfect but the footage is jerky - especially noticeable on pans. My output to VHS is perfect. What's the problem here?

June 9th, 2004, 08:09 AM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	How long is your material? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 10th, 2004, 02:27 AM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Is iDVD doing any MPEG encoding? If so, what settings are you using? Do NOT expect a program to do magic for you. Programs rarely work their best with the default settings. MPEG encoding is a real "craft" requiring changing settings and fiddling with them till you get it perfect! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 10th, 2004, 05:35 AM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	iDVD is an entry level program that has fixed settings for the encoding. It uses one setting for short programs and a lower setting for longer programs. None of the encoding settings are user adjustable. If higher quality results are desired than I suggest you look at DVD SP. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 14th, 2004, 02:39 AM	#14
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Exporting to QuickTime says nothing. QuickTime is just a wrapper for codecs. The question is which codec is being used. Each codec has its own settings and footage it works best on. In such cases you want to go with uncompressed (especially since it is such a short movie). So when exporting there is hopefully an option button, or advanced or settings etc. Pick uncompressed as codec and that's all you should have to do. I'm not a Mac person so I can't check on how this is supposed to work. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 9th, 2004, 08:48 AM	#3
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	It's only 111 seconds.

June 9th, 2004, 09:05 AM	#4
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Umm.... DVDs are MPEG2 - NOT MPEG4.

June 9th, 2004, 09:17 AM	#5
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	Oh must be MPEG-2 then. Sorry for the false info.

June 9th, 2004, 02:49 PM	#6
Mark Sloan Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 346	Maybe he DID mean MPEG-4. Unless you have DVD Studio Pro you don't do ANY export to MPEG-2 from FCP to use iDVD (right?). You can just put your FCP movie in iDVD and burn away, of if you do the QT thing just leave it as DV. MPEG-4 would explain why it looks horrible, QTs conversion to MPEG-4 is lousy... can't wait for Apple to fix it.

June 9th, 2004, 04:49 PM	#7
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Export from Final Cut Pro with DV or uncompressed. I don't know what your other options are, but that will solve the problem.

June 10th, 2004, 02:13 AM	#8
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	After a bit of checking I've noticed that the exported files are okay (a Final Cut Movie) looks the best - it is after the DVD has been burned and is played back that it is poor. Does this mean that iDVD 2 just isn't good enough?

June 10th, 2004, 02:36 AM	#10
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	I'm pretty sure iDVD just does it all for you - no settings at all 'just wash and go'.

June 11th, 2004, 02:16 PM	#12
Mark Sloan Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 346	The latest version of iDVD does have a setting for something like "Encode in background" in the preferences, I think it is only available if the disc is under 1 hour, but that might affect the quality. In general though, I believe it only has 3 compression settings that it does automatically, 1 hour and less, 1 hour to 1.5 hours, over 1.5 hours. Mine have all looked great (not so good on the monitor, but on a TV).

June 14th, 2004, 02:28 AM	#13
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	Well, I really don't understand what's going on. My footage is only 111 seconds so iDVD should be using the best quality settings. I've been examining my files before burning and have noticed that: • Exported as 'Final Cut Movie' the footage is slightly soft - ie blurred, the movement is smooth (not jerky). • Exported as Quicktime using 'best' quality the footage is crisp, the movement is smooth (not jerky) but the colours are very patchy/blocky like a mosaic (this is bad throughout but is very noticeable on dissolves). Once burned to DVD the footage is: • Quicktime version - perfect except for the patchy and blocky colours. • Final Cut Movie' - slightly blurred footage but the movement has become jerky (it's like this throughout but is especially noticeable on pans). So does nobody else have these problems? What can I do or try? The quality is unnacceptable and I'm thinking of upgrading to Final Cut 4 and iDVD 4. I really resent having to do this though and it will be very expensive.

June 14th, 2004, 02:49 AM	#15
Justin Morgan Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Posts: 189	When exporting to Quicktime I get a button that says 'options' when I click that I get a pop-up window that has a slider for quality - I slide it up to 'best' (the highest setting). I'm also un-selecting the 'prepare for web streaming' option. Can't see anything else I should be doing. Am I missing something? PS why is the 'Final Cut Movie' version blurred!? What's that all about?!