DVD Disc Disclaimer at DVinfo.net

Danny Santos · December 3rd, 2003, 12:09 PM

I am by no means a professional videographer and doing video as a business. In fact, I just got my GL2 last October and still learning how to use it. I just love to take pictures. Anyway, I was asked to video a church choir performance in the local Junior College auditiorium about 2 weeks ago.

I love video editing (also still learning) and I showed my friend my fully edited DVD version (1.5 hours) of their show and he then presented it to his congregation. Two days later, they asked if I could do this and that (to add more titles, credits, etc) and I did. They saw the final version and they are now ordering 55 copies complete with labels and jewel cases.

My problem here is not how much to charge them but rather how do I protect myself. It has taken me 2 days (normal hours) to burn 55 copies. I randomly checked the DVDs and found some bad ones and reburn new ones. Since I only randomly played the DVDs I don't know how many bad ones there are. Of course, there is also the issue that some DVD players are not capable of playing computer generated DVDs i.e., DVD -R, DVD+R, etc.

Before I release all 55 copies to them, I am looking for some sort form of disclaimer to protect myself. I am willing to re-burn any "bad ones" but the definition of "bad DVDs" can also be questionable. Is it bad because the DVD player cannot play it or is it the disc? I will replace if its my disc.

Also, I found some companys via the Internet that will burn/copy DVDs ? Do you gentlemen go this route or do you burn your own DVDs?

As usual, I am looking for help and assistance in this forum.

Thanks.

Glenn Chan · December 3rd, 2003, 12:40 PM

If you use the right media you can avoid lots of coasters. What you're looking for are discs from a good manufacturer like Taiyo Yuden or Ritek. At some online stores they'll tell you who manufactured the discs (companies like Apple just stamp their name on the discs so they are not the manufacturer).

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/archive/t172496.html

If the person's DVD player can't play your disc then it's bad. It's kinda common sense.

I'd probably get DVDs professionally duplicated next time. Doing it yourself usually isn't worth your time and it's a lot of hassle.

Gints Klimanis · December 3rd, 2003, 04:39 PM

At the very least, consider doing a Verify on each DVD-R after burning. This will add time to your burn, but will ensure that
at least the data was written properly in all areas of the disc.

Danny Santos · December 3rd, 2003, 05:17 PM

The bad disc problem I should have described is pixelation and after a few seconds the video stops. These problems occur towards the end of the video. I am currently using Memorex +R and it seems that the problem discs are the ones stacked at the bottom of the spindle.

Gints Klimanis · December 3rd, 2003, 05:35 PM

+R ? Wow, good luck with players reading that. Many computer
DVD-ROM drives don't do DVD+R in my experience. None of my Sony DVD-ROMs work. With the exception of one old Sony DVD player that doesn't play DVD-R/RW and CD-R (CD-RW ok, though) , I've had no complaints about DVD-R compatibility, including X-Box and Sony PS2.

Random checking of discs is not of much value. You may be able to catch major problems that would cause the DVD player to freeze up, but DVD players vary in their ability to deal with errors.
The data verify after burn is something you should do.

Mike Rehmus · December 3rd, 2003, 07:54 PM

I offer an even exchange for a VHS copy if they cannot play the DVD.

I'd not burn +R though, I'd go for -R.

Gints Klimanis · December 3rd, 2003, 08:13 PM

Mike,

Do you just run your DVD to a VHS or play the full, non-MPEG2 encoded version on your computer ? Which VHS deck do you use for creating copies? Does it have an SVHS input?

Thank you for any info.

Glenn Chan · December 3rd, 2003, 08:29 PM

Quote:

The bad disc problem I should have described is pixelation and after a few seconds the video stops. These problems occur towards the end of the video. I am currently using Memorex +R and it seems that the problem discs are the ones stacked at the bottom of the spindle.

Some folks have problems with those discs. One example: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...me&start-at=11

You might want to check the DVD codes on the discs to see who they're made by. CMC (who might have made those discs) is known to be not so good.

Boyd Ostroff · December 3rd, 2003, 08:35 PM

I'm with you guys... +R is not going to work in a lot of existing players as I understand it. Why not use -R? I make VHS copies by sending s-video directly from FCP to a Mitsubishi HS-U747. If I record S-VHS then it looks quite good, but regular VHS always disappoints me; I suppose that can't be helped. Mine is a relatively cheap consumer grade deck however.

Personally I wouldn't have the patience to run 50+ copies though! ;-)

Glenn Chan · December 3rd, 2003, 10:04 PM

Apparently both are about as compatible. From the FAQ's & The Biggest Misconceptions of DVD MEDIA (http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/archive/t172496.html):

Quote:

What's better, DVD-R or DVD+R? There is no correct answer here as both formats are extremely compatible and have many similarities. Although DVD-R has been around longer and is "statistically" sold around the world more then (DVD+R), that doesn't make it better. Both are compatible with the majority of the standalone players on the market and although the compatibility between the two formats (in terms of percentages) favors DVD-R, the difference is so infinitecimal, it has no bearing.

Mike Rehmus · December 3rd, 2003, 11:20 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Gints Klimanis : Mike,

Do you just run your DVD to a VHS or play the full, non-MPEG2 encoded version on your computer ? Which VHS deck do you use for creating copies? Does it have an SVHS input?

Thank you for any info. -->>>

I play out the VHS from the original timeline. I haven't tried the DVD to VHS but I'm going to do so in the near future.

I have a video distribution amp that accepts S-Video and transcodes it to composite video to my dupe stack.

I do have a Sony SLV-R1000 S-VHS deck with S-Video input. It and my Sony industrial VHS decks (1420's) are a little bit better than my $70 Panasonic decks for VHS dubs.

I normally back up all my finished work onto the large DVCam tapes so I always can play from a DVCam tape to my dupe stack.

Bogdan Vaglarov · December 5th, 2003, 01:53 AM

Check out a recent review from tomshardware.com of a modern DVD burners:

www6.tomshardware.com/storage/20031027/dvd_burner-40.html

After reading it I made one conclusion.

Seems to me that the multy DVD burners that support both the + and the - format produce unusable +Rs on many consumer DVD players. Their -Rs though play on most without problem.

If the burner is only + format it seems it's +R recorded disks are also compatable with most of the players.

How about that?

Arnaldo Paixao · December 5th, 2003, 04:15 AM

Hi all.

I'v delivered several hundreds of wedding videos on DVD+R and had only two player refusals. Tried DVD-R and no luck. My experience tells me that when a player does'nt like recordable DVDs, it makes little diference if it is -R or +R. On those cases, I deliver another DVD in the 3.95Gb Authoring format, never fails.
In fact, if I could get a steady supply at a good price of 3.95Gb Authoring blank media, I would'nt use any other.

Danny, there are other things you should consider, besides the type of media you'r using:

- Type of audio - If possible use Dolby Digital (AC3) audio.

- Video - When encoding your video to mpeg2, you should use a max of 7000, some players don't like high bitrates.

- The program you use to author your DVD (and the way it encodes your DVD files) plays a major role in compatability, or lack of it. I use ReelDVD (uses the same encoding engine as Scenarist - the Rolls Royce of DVD authoring) and it has served me very well.

Good luck and best regards,
Arnaldo

Danny Santos · December 5th, 2003, 06:37 AM

Hi Arnaldo, thanks for your response and so timely because I just burned a DVD-R. Someone complained that her player will not play my DVD+R disc so I burned a DVD-R for her. It did not matter. Still won't play. It was her DVD player and because it was an older model.

I really believe that any DVD player that plays -R will also play +R or vice versa.

I will also try your suggestion at 7000 bitrates. The only problem with this is such a high bitrate and will increase the total size (GBytes) of your video.

Trond Saetre · December 5th, 2003, 06:55 AM

>I really believe that any DVD player that plays -R will also play +R or vice versa.

My experience is that most newer DVD players accept both +R and -R.
I have had some problems with older players only accepting one type (+R OR -R).

December 3rd, 2003, 12:09 PM	#1
Danny Santos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Antioch, CA USA Posts: 49	DVD Disc Disclaimer I am by no means a professional videographer and doing video as a business. In fact, I just got my GL2 last October and still learning how to use it. I just love to take pictures. Anyway, I was asked to video a church choir performance in the local Junior College auditiorium about 2 weeks ago. I love video editing (also still learning) and I showed my friend my fully edited DVD version (1.5 hours) of their show and he then presented it to his congregation. Two days later, they asked if I could do this and that (to add more titles, credits, etc) and I did. They saw the final version and they are now ordering 55 copies complete with labels and jewel cases. My problem here is not how much to charge them but rather how do I protect myself. It has taken me 2 days (normal hours) to burn 55 copies. I randomly checked the DVDs and found some bad ones and reburn new ones. Since I only randomly played the DVDs I don't know how many bad ones there are. Of course, there is also the issue that some DVD players are not capable of playing computer generated DVDs i.e., DVD -R, DVD+R, etc. Before I release all 55 copies to them, I am looking for some sort form of disclaimer to protect myself. I am willing to re-burn any "bad ones" but the definition of "bad DVDs" can also be questionable. Is it bad because the DVD player cannot play it or is it the disc? I will replace if its my disc. Also, I found some companys via the Internet that will burn/copy DVDs ? Do you gentlemen go this route or do you burn your own DVDs? As usual, I am looking for help and assistance in this forum. Thanks.

December 3rd, 2003, 07:54 PM	#6
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I offer an even exchange for a VHS copy if they cannot play the DVD. I'd not burn +R though, I'd go for -R. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 3rd, 2003, 11:20 PM	#11
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	<<<-- Originally posted by Gints Klimanis : Mike, Do you just run your DVD to a VHS or play the full, non-MPEG2 encoded version on your computer ? Which VHS deck do you use for creating copies? Does it have an SVHS input? Thank you for any info. -->>> I play out the VHS from the original timeline. I haven't tried the DVD to VHS but I'm going to do so in the near future. I have a video distribution amp that accepts S-Video and transcodes it to composite video to my dupe stack. I do have a Sony SLV-R1000 S-VHS deck with S-Video input. It and my Sony industrial VHS decks (1420's) are a little bit better than my $70 Panasonic decks for VHS dubs. I normally back up all my finished work onto the large DVCam tapes so I always can play from a DVCam tape to my dupe stack. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 3rd, 2003, 12:40 PM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	If you use the right media you can avoid lots of coasters. What you're looking for are discs from a good manufacturer like Taiyo Yuden or Ritek. At some online stores they'll tell you who manufactured the discs (companies like Apple just stamp their name on the discs so they are not the manufacturer). http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/archive/t172496.html If the person's DVD player can't play your disc then it's bad. It's kinda common sense. I'd probably get DVDs professionally duplicated next time. Doing it yourself usually isn't worth your time and it's a lot of hassle.

December 3rd, 2003, 04:39 PM	#3
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	At the very least, consider doing a Verify on each DVD-R after burning. This will add time to your burn, but will ensure that at least the data was written properly in all areas of the disc.

December 3rd, 2003, 05:17 PM	#4
Danny Santos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Antioch, CA USA Posts: 49	The bad disc problem I should have described is pixelation and after a few seconds the video stops. These problems occur towards the end of the video. I am currently using Memorex +R and it seems that the problem discs are the ones stacked at the bottom of the spindle.

December 3rd, 2003, 05:35 PM	#5
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	+R ? Wow, good luck with players reading that. Many computer DVD-ROM drives don't do DVD+R in my experience. None of my Sony DVD-ROMs work. With the exception of one old Sony DVD player that doesn't play DVD-R/RW and CD-R (CD-RW ok, though) , I've had no complaints about DVD-R compatibility, including X-Box and Sony PS2. Random checking of discs is not of much value. You may be able to catch major problems that would cause the DVD player to freeze up, but DVD players vary in their ability to deal with errors. The data verify after burn is something you should do.

December 3rd, 2003, 08:13 PM	#7
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Mike, Do you just run your DVD to a VHS or play the full, non-MPEG2 encoded version on your computer ? Which VHS deck do you use for creating copies? Does it have an SVHS input? Thank you for any info.

December 3rd, 2003, 08:35 PM	#9
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I'm with you guys... +R is not going to work in a lot of existing players as I understand it. Why not use -R? I make VHS copies by sending s-video directly from FCP to a Mitsubishi HS-U747. If I record S-VHS then it looks quite good, but regular VHS always disappoints me; I suppose that can't be helped. Mine is a relatively cheap consumer grade deck however. Personally I wouldn't have the patience to run 50+ copies though! ;-)

December 5th, 2003, 01:53 AM	#12
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Check out a recent review from tomshardware.com of a modern DVD burners: www6.tomshardware.com/storage/20031027/dvd_burner-40.html After reading it I made one conclusion. Seems to me that the multy DVD burners that support both the + and the - format produce unusable +Rs on many consumer DVD players. Their -Rs though play on most without problem. If the burner is only + format it seems it's +R recorded disks are also compatable with most of the players. How about that?

December 5th, 2003, 04:15 AM	#13
Arnaldo Paixao Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vimeiro - Portugal Posts: 255	Hi all. I'v delivered several hundreds of wedding videos on DVD+R and had only two player refusals. Tried DVD-R and no luck. My experience tells me that when a player does'nt like recordable DVDs, it makes little diference if it is -R or +R. On those cases, I deliver another DVD in the 3.95Gb Authoring format, never fails. In fact, if I could get a steady supply at a good price of 3.95Gb Authoring blank media, I would'nt use any other. Danny, there are other things you should consider, besides the type of media you'r using: - Type of audio - If possible use Dolby Digital (AC3) audio. - Video - When encoding your video to mpeg2, you should use a max of 7000, some players don't like high bitrates. - The program you use to author your DVD (and the way it encodes your DVD files) plays a major role in compatability, or lack of it. I use ReelDVD (uses the same encoding engine as Scenarist - the Rolls Royce of DVD authoring) and it has served me very well. Good luck and best regards, Arnaldo

December 5th, 2003, 06:37 AM	#14
Danny Santos Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Antioch, CA USA Posts: 49	Hi Arnaldo, thanks for your response and so timely because I just burned a DVD-R. Someone complained that her player will not play my DVD+R disc so I burned a DVD-R for her. It did not matter. Still won't play. It was her DVD player and because it was an older model. I really believe that any DVD player that plays -R will also play +R or vice versa. I will also try your suggestion at 7000 bitrates. The only problem with this is such a high bitrate and will increase the total size (GBytes) of your video.

December 5th, 2003, 06:55 AM	#15
Trond Saetre Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 3,375	>I really believe that any DVD player that plays -R will also play +R or vice versa. My experience is that most newer DVD players accept both +R and -R. I have had some problems with older players only accepting one type (+R OR -R).