DVD-RW vs. REAL DVD's at DVinfo.net

Mike Zorger · October 30th, 2003, 09:05 AM

Ok well My skateboard video is dropping in a month from monday, and i want to put it on a REAL DVD not the ones you burn off the computer. How much does it cost to have this done? Like if i got about 150 of them.

Mark Jefferson · October 30th, 2003, 10:19 AM

Check out customflix.com for a start. I've never used them, but other people have spoken highly of them.

Cheers,
mark

Jake Russell · October 30th, 2003, 12:25 PM

It may be different in the US but the replication houses I author for have a min run of 500-1000 for pressed discs.

If you can't replicate then maybe use 3.95GB dvd-r(A)'s with a thermal print.......

Get your hands on a DLT 4000 too and write the project to that if you get the job pressed,

Jake

Peter Moore · October 30th, 2003, 04:02 PM

You usually can't get less than 1000 DVD-5s done cost effectively. In other words, getting 150 made will cost you almost just as much as getting 1000. That's because of the cost of the glass master compared to the cost of the plastic, which is pennies.

What I would suggest you do is what I did: get 1000 DVD5's made in bulk - should cost about $1000 or maybe $900. Then get 150 digitally printed outer-wraps and amaray cases. This should cost you about another $200. So for about $1200 you can get it done. I don't know if you're concerned about making a profit, or if you're selling them at all, but if you sell those 150 at $10 a piece then you've made a decent profit. And you have an extra 800+ mementos to your work. :)

There really is no other way, I'm afraid, to get "real" DVDs pressed.

BTW, forget about using a DLT, it's not worth the hassle. Pay the extra $90 or so the replicator charges you for DVD-R submission. Then you're guaranteed nothing can go wrong.

The replicator I recommend is Acutrack.com. Very competitive prices, excellent support staff, and very friendly and willing to answer ALL your questions. They were also the only replicator house willing to take two DVD-Rs for my DVD-9 submission, and it worked flawlessly.

Jake Russell · October 30th, 2003, 04:39 PM

I would say that that is NOT good advice at all. DLT is far FAR FAR LESS of a risk than dvd-r. DLT tapes are reliable, offer massive storage capacity, and act as the standard delivery format for dvd mastering. ALL replicators accept DLT tapes. If you're going to use any form of copy protction, region coding, CSS, Macrovision DLT is your only option. All rep houses will accept a DDP-formatted DLT tape but if you write CMF then you may need to check. I'd go with DLT then a HD or dvd-r(A) before dvd-r(G) and even if I sent a dvd-r(G) I'd make sure I sent afew copies so the disc with the fewest errors was used.

Doing a dvd-9 on two dvd-r's well it really depends on the way it was done but many rep houses wouldn't even attempt to accept this kind of method and I would be really carful before recommending is also.....

"only replicator house willing to take two DVD-Rs for my DVD-9 submission"
This should sound alarm bells!!!!

Hmmmm I think thats the first time I've seen guaranteed and DVD-R on the same line :-).

Ok changed my browser size now so DVD-R is on the next line down.

Yep you'll need a larger run than 150 but I said what I thought about that in my other post,

Jake

Peter Moore · October 30th, 2003, 10:00 PM

Well I strongly disagree based on my experience. If you try to use a DLT and you don't know what you're doing, you can easily wind up with a mess on your hands. I've read plenty of stories of this happening, and it almost happened to me. If you give them a DVD-R that you've tested in numerous DVD players, they will load the DVD-R onto their computer and use a Sonic utility to transfer the files to DLT with DDP, etc. At that stage they will know immediately whether anything's wrong with the data on the DVD-R and if so will let you submit a new one BEFORE the master is produced. With a DLT, if you've screwed up the process, you won't know until after the master is made.

Alarm bells? That's ridiculous. I used Acutrack.com for a DVD-9 project and it was flawless. I used Maestro to create the VIDEO_TS files, split the files evenly across two disks, and told them title and chapter point to put the layer break, and it was 1-2-3 no problem, with 1000 flawless disks. The only people who would refuse to do this don't want to be bothered.

They will also add macrovision, region coding, CSS, etc. to your DVD-R submitted project for the same price as they would if you gave them a DLT. All you have to do is pay $90 or so to guarantee that your files are transfered to DLT properly. Or you can do it yourself, probably not knowing what you're doing, and end up with a $500 glass coaster.

And anyway, the error rate on DVD-R is much less than you think. Most DVD-Rs burned will not have a single error, as I know from burning hundreds of DVD-Rs with both data and video and never having a problem of my own. This view that DLTs are more reliable is a throwback to the early days and is no longer true.

But don't believe me if you choose not to. I don't work for Acutrack, so it's no skin off me either way.

Jake Russell · November 4th, 2003, 05:43 AM

They basically authored both projects. So thats not the same as having your disc mastered from dvd-r or having a dvd-9 made from two dvd-r's. Each house can do things in different ways and some(most it seems at the moment) don't do it well. Glad yours did and I will make sure I keep the name and tell dvd-r submitters go to them and a few others that pop up as doing the whole transfer properly.

Of course they can add copy protection to the project if they load the project and author. The project would be then written to DLT and pressed even if you didn't give them the DLT or even know that they did it. It's the only way they can insert the keys to the flags, it just cant be done to a dvd-r.

Lots of authoring houses will finish a project off. I sent a guy to a house the other day and they took his ReelDVD project and finished it Scenarist.

Glad your discs are running fine but it seems to me that they were probably mastered from DLT or sent to the stamper across a network.

I'm also glad you're dvd-r experience has been good but to advise against the 'standard' for dvd-r just seemed strange and not the best advise with so many people including most major replication facilities advising against it.

DLT drives are plug and play so out of interest what went wrong with it in your case? I know some Mac users have had issues with their DLT4000's and a particular card on OSX but other than that it's pretty straight forward. The drives are always about and cheap on ebay.

And you can actually read DLT's with some authoring apps(inc. Maestro, Read tape option(chapter 10)). Even dvdsp 2(kinda a mac Maestro as apple bought Spruce) now has this option.....

Jake

Peter Moore · November 9th, 2003, 10:50 PM

I wouldn't recommend going straight from DVD-R to replication machine, not based on personal experience but what everyone says. But yes, if the place will take your Title Sets and put them onto DLT for you, like the place I used, I would go with that for the ease and lack of risk when doing the DLT yourself. I bought a DLT drive on ebay for $35, but seeing as how I couldn't figure how to guarantee a successful write, I opted for the transfer.

And most of the companies I investigated prior to doing this had the same option, they'd take your DVD-R and make a DLT from it. Or they'd take "authoring" DVD-Rs, but no one to my knowledge want from DVD-R General to replication for the reasons you mentioned.

October 30th, 2003, 09:05 AM	#1
Mike Zorger Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norther VA Posts: 163	DVD-RW vs. REAL DVD's Ok well My skateboard video is dropping in a month from monday, and i want to put it on a REAL DVD not the ones you burn off the computer. How much does it cost to have this done? Like if i got about 150 of them.

October 30th, 2003, 10:19 AM	#2
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Check out customflix.com for a start. I've never used them, but other people have spoken highly of them. Cheers, mark

October 30th, 2003, 12:25 PM	#3
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	It may be different in the US but the replication houses I author for have a min run of 500-1000 for pressed discs. If you can't replicate then maybe use 3.95GB dvd-r(A)'s with a thermal print....... Get your hands on a DLT 4000 too and write the project to that if you get the job pressed, Jake

October 30th, 2003, 04:02 PM	#4
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	You usually can't get less than 1000 DVD-5s done cost effectively. In other words, getting 150 made will cost you almost just as much as getting 1000. That's because of the cost of the glass master compared to the cost of the plastic, which is pennies. What I would suggest you do is what I did: get 1000 DVD5's made in bulk - should cost about $1000 or maybe $900. Then get 150 digitally printed outer-wraps and amaray cases. This should cost you about another $200. So for about $1200 you can get it done. I don't know if you're concerned about making a profit, or if you're selling them at all, but if you sell those 150 at $10 a piece then you've made a decent profit. And you have an extra 800+ mementos to your work. :) There really is no other way, I'm afraid, to get "real" DVDs pressed. BTW, forget about using a DLT, it's not worth the hassle. Pay the extra $90 or so the replicator charges you for DVD-R submission. Then you're guaranteed nothing can go wrong. The replicator I recommend is Acutrack.com. Very competitive prices, excellent support staff, and very friendly and willing to answer ALL your questions. They were also the only replicator house willing to take two DVD-Rs for my DVD-9 submission, and it worked flawlessly.

October 30th, 2003, 04:39 PM	#5
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	I would say that that is NOT good advice at all. DLT is far FAR FAR LESS of a risk than dvd-r. DLT tapes are reliable, offer massive storage capacity, and act as the standard delivery format for dvd mastering. ALL replicators accept DLT tapes. If you're going to use any form of copy protction, region coding, CSS, Macrovision DLT is your only option. All rep houses will accept a DDP-formatted DLT tape but if you write CMF then you may need to check. I'd go with DLT then a HD or dvd-r(A) before dvd-r(G) and even if I sent a dvd-r(G) I'd make sure I sent afew copies so the disc with the fewest errors was used. Doing a dvd-9 on two dvd-r's well it really depends on the way it was done but many rep houses wouldn't even attempt to accept this kind of method and I would be really carful before recommending is also..... "only replicator house willing to take two DVD-Rs for my DVD-9 submission" This should sound alarm bells!!!! Hmmmm I think thats the first time I've seen guaranteed and DVD-R on the same line :-). Ok changed my browser size now so DVD-R is on the next line down. Yep you'll need a larger run than 150 but I said what I thought about that in my other post, Jake

October 30th, 2003, 10:00 PM	#6
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Well I strongly disagree based on my experience. If you try to use a DLT and you don't know what you're doing, you can easily wind up with a mess on your hands. I've read plenty of stories of this happening, and it almost happened to me. If you give them a DVD-R that you've tested in numerous DVD players, they will load the DVD-R onto their computer and use a Sonic utility to transfer the files to DLT with DDP, etc. At that stage they will know immediately whether anything's wrong with the data on the DVD-R and if so will let you submit a new one BEFORE the master is produced. With a DLT, if you've screwed up the process, you won't know until after the master is made. Alarm bells? That's ridiculous. I used Acutrack.com for a DVD-9 project and it was flawless. I used Maestro to create the VIDEO_TS files, split the files evenly across two disks, and told them title and chapter point to put the layer break, and it was 1-2-3 no problem, with 1000 flawless disks. The only people who would refuse to do this don't want to be bothered. They will also add macrovision, region coding, CSS, etc. to your DVD-R submitted project for the same price as they would if you gave them a DLT. All you have to do is pay $90 or so to guarantee that your files are transfered to DLT properly. Or you can do it yourself, probably not knowing what you're doing, and end up with a $500 glass coaster. And anyway, the error rate on DVD-R is much less than you think. Most DVD-Rs burned will not have a single error, as I know from burning hundreds of DVD-Rs with both data and video and never having a problem of my own. This view that DLTs are more reliable is a throwback to the early days and is no longer true. But don't believe me if you choose not to. I don't work for Acutrack, so it's no skin off me either way.

November 4th, 2003, 05:43 AM	#7
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	They basically authored both projects. So thats not the same as having your disc mastered from dvd-r or having a dvd-9 made from two dvd-r's. Each house can do things in different ways and some(most it seems at the moment) don't do it well. Glad yours did and I will make sure I keep the name and tell dvd-r submitters go to them and a few others that pop up as doing the whole transfer properly. Of course they can add copy protection to the project if they load the project and author. The project would be then written to DLT and pressed even if you didn't give them the DLT or even know that they did it. It's the only way they can insert the keys to the flags, it just cant be done to a dvd-r. Lots of authoring houses will finish a project off. I sent a guy to a house the other day and they took his ReelDVD project and finished it Scenarist. Glad your discs are running fine but it seems to me that they were probably mastered from DLT or sent to the stamper across a network. I'm also glad you're dvd-r experience has been good but to advise against the 'standard' for dvd-r just seemed strange and not the best advise with so many people including most major replication facilities advising against it. DLT drives are plug and play so out of interest what went wrong with it in your case? I know some Mac users have had issues with their DLT4000's and a particular card on OSX but other than that it's pretty straight forward. The drives are always about and cheap on ebay. And you can actually read DLT's with some authoring apps(inc. Maestro, Read tape option(chapter 10)). Even dvdsp 2(kinda a mac Maestro as apple bought Spruce) now has this option..... Jake

November 9th, 2003, 10:50 PM	#8
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	I wouldn't recommend going straight from DVD-R to replication machine, not based on personal experience but what everyone says. But yes, if the place will take your Title Sets and put them onto DLT for you, like the place I used, I would go with that for the ease and lack of risk when doing the DLT yourself. I bought a DLT drive on ebay for $35, but seeing as how I couldn't figure how to guarantee a successful write, I opted for the transfer. And most of the companies I investigated prior to doing this had the same option, they'd take your DVD-R and make a DLT from it. Or they'd take "authoring" DVD-Rs, but no one to my knowledge want from DVD-R General to replication for the reasons you mentioned.