DVD formats at DVinfo.net

Brad Tyrrell · October 20th, 2003, 07:23 PM

I've been making event copies on VHS for some years and have finally been persuaded to supply DVDs. Does anyone have information on what format might be currently most compatible?

I just want most people to be able to pop one of my copies into their dvd machine and be able to see it. DVD-R, DVD+R, etc. Any drawbacks to the formats?

Currently XL1 to Premier to Sony DV deck to Sony VHS duplicators.

Thanks,

Brad Tyrrell

Jeff Donald · October 20th, 2003, 07:41 PM

The last figures i saw (about 6 weeks ago) DVD-R was still ahead, over DVD+R by about 10%. But there are several organizations that track this data and I'm sure each camp has their own figures showing superiority. I'm sure either will do well for you, but accept that their will always be some incompatibility. If maximum compatibility is a must get the discs pressed at a replicator.

Brad Tyrrell · October 21st, 2003, 08:56 AM

Thanks Jeff,

It seems like a lot of manufacturers have decided to make their newer machines compatible with several formats. The gadget I'm playing with now (Philips DVDR75) burns + and - R's and RW's (also audio & video CD's). It's pretty much a consumer deck, but has a 1394 input so I can copy my DV masters from the DHR 1000 to DVD.

I've got a project coming up where I've been asked to supply DVD copies. Some people probably won't appreciate having to buy a new machine (although the low end at Best Buy is around $65) so I was just hoping to find out how to ruffle the fewest feathers.

I'm not a major player in the event business, so we're usually only talking 20 to 50 copies. I'll play around with what I've got for a bit before investing 'cause it'll do the job - sorta.

I can see I'll need to upgrade Premiere and get the DVD authoring plugin since customers will probably expect menus etc instead of just tape on DVD.

Thanks again for your input.

Brad Tyrrell

Gints Klimanis · October 21st, 2003, 01:15 PM

DVD recorder manufacturers claim that DVD+R and DVD-R have the same support. I've heard that some of the incompatibilities have to do with the audio format, so stick to 48000 Hz PCM or AC3. That is, avoid MPEG1 Layer II, which really seems to rot on
ambient noise unless the bitrate is 224 kbps or greater.

My experience has been that DVD-R seems to work just about everywhere, except for one old Sony.
I have heard that many people have trouble with DVD+R in Toshiba DVD players. I had to struggle to find a computer DVD-ROM drive that read DVD+R. Many play their movies on laptops,
so this is important.

A lot of people use the Sony Playstation 2 for DVD playback, but it has graduated support. The early units don't do DVD-R or +R, but the new ones apparently do both. I would guess that the PS2 is the most prevalent model of DVD player when comparing
model to model.

Brad Tyrrell · October 21st, 2003, 01:57 PM

Thanks Gints,

I appreciate the info. These tidbits will probably save me a lot of frustration and probably money shortly.

Brad Tyrrell

Gints Klimanis · October 21st, 2003, 02:34 PM

Hey, check this out. The Sony PS2 is definitely the most prevalent DVD player model in existence.

http://www.gamers.tv/articles/923/

60 Million PS2 Units Shipped
Sony have announced that cumulative worldwide shipment of the PS2 reached 60 million units on September 6, 2003.

Ed Smith · October 22nd, 2003, 08:38 AM

Check out http://www.dvdrhelp.com/ for information on DVDR media and vcd etc.

-R are the most compatible. reason being that they have been in the market longer, and manufacturers have had time to incorporate it into their products.

hope this helps,

Ed

Brad Tyrrell · October 22nd, 2003, 11:33 AM

Thanks Ed,

The dvdrhelp site is very helpful.

Brad Tyrrell

Jake Russell · October 23rd, 2003, 02:19 PM

This might be a good read, scroll down to DVD Compatibility Test (July 2002 I think).

http://www.dv.com/features/archive.jhtml

Try and keep the bitrate down, use -R unless the client asks for +R, buy good name brand media and get your PCM audio to AC3 Dolby Streams if you can as they take up less bandwidth, don't use labels & burn at 1x,

Good Luck

Jake

Brad Tyrrell · October 24th, 2003, 09:30 AM

Thanks Jake,

I appreciate the advice and the reference.

Brad Tyrrell

Gints Klimanis · October 24th, 2003, 01:01 PM

> burn at 1x,

Jake, have you had problems at other burn speeds? I've
burned 150+ DVD-Rs, mostly at 2x using a Pioneer A04.
Thus far, I've had no playback problems, but I don't
do a formal verify. Do you really think DVD burn speed is
an issue with the latest round of DVD burners? Or,
have you been using an older system that has issues
with disk speed or network interruptions.

I've never seen any recommend taking the system
off the network during critical operations. Network
cards and software generally use the highest priority
interrupts.

Jake Russell · October 24th, 2003, 01:43 PM

Most, well basically all of my projects are replicated so I dont, personally, have too much to go on. I will say that I write all my check discs at 2x and test on a few players but if a proof copy is sent out it's written at 1x. If you're replicating from dvd-r(I don't recommend it) they say write at 1x and send atleast 2 copies incase 1 has too many errors.

I know & come in contact with quite a few people who do use dvd-r quite a lot and I'd say yes it does play a part but there are so many variables with recordable media it's really tough to pin just 1 or 2 actual reasons down a lot of the time. Normally it's cheap media(non-brand) but the world is changing a lot at the moment.

Some people have done 1000's of discs with labels and never had a problem others have done 20 and almost lost their job. As lots of 'experts' and very experienced people say write at 1x and not 2x or 4x to increase compatibility I'd say if time isn't an issue write at 1x if you can. But if you dont have a problem then you dont have a problem so it's really down to each individual author I guess....

Not sure if that helps any but I hope so......

Jake

Gints Klimanis · October 24th, 2003, 02:33 PM

I think an error rate table at various burn speeds from a DVD writer manufacturer is more useful. If I find one, I'll post it.

Jake Russell · October 24th, 2003, 02:57 PM

Did a search on a bunch of dv & dvd boards and it seems that writing problematic projects (written at 2x or 4x) again at 1x solved the issues folks were having quite a lot of the time.

Yep a table would be a good thing but I doubt you'll find one. There are so many variables with recordable media that it wouldn't really prove much anyway. Burning faster makes the disc less compatible but how much for each individual situation is the big question. Not knowing is enough for some to stay with 1x I guess,

Jake

October 20th, 2003, 07:23 PM	#1
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	DVD formats I've been making event copies on VHS for some years and have finally been persuaded to supply DVDs. Does anyone have information on what format might be currently most compatible? I just want most people to be able to pop one of my copies into their dvd machine and be able to see it. DVD-R, DVD+R, etc. Any drawbacks to the formats? Currently XL1 to Premier to Sony DV deck to Sony VHS duplicators. Thanks, Brad Tyrrell

October 20th, 2003, 07:41 PM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The last figures i saw (about 6 weeks ago) DVD-R was still ahead, over DVD+R by about 10%. But there are several organizations that track this data and I'm sure each camp has their own figures showing superiority. I'm sure either will do well for you, but accept that their will always be some incompatibility. If maximum compatibility is a must get the discs pressed at a replicator. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 22nd, 2003, 08:38 AM	#7
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	Check out http://www.dvdrhelp.com/ for information on DVDR media and vcd etc. -R are the most compatible. reason being that they have been in the market longer, and manufacturers have had time to incorporate it into their products. hope this helps, Ed __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

October 21st, 2003, 08:56 AM	#3
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	Thanks Jeff, It seems like a lot of manufacturers have decided to make their newer machines compatible with several formats. The gadget I'm playing with now (Philips DVDR75) burns + and - R's and RW's (also audio & video CD's). It's pretty much a consumer deck, but has a 1394 input so I can copy my DV masters from the DHR 1000 to DVD. I've got a project coming up where I've been asked to supply DVD copies. Some people probably won't appreciate having to buy a new machine (although the low end at Best Buy is around $65) so I was just hoping to find out how to ruffle the fewest feathers. I'm not a major player in the event business, so we're usually only talking 20 to 50 copies. I'll play around with what I've got for a bit before investing 'cause it'll do the job - sorta. I can see I'll need to upgrade Premiere and get the DVD authoring plugin since customers will probably expect menus etc instead of just tape on DVD. Thanks again for your input. Brad Tyrrell

October 21st, 2003, 01:15 PM	#4
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	DVD recorder manufacturers claim that DVD+R and DVD-R have the same support. I've heard that some of the incompatibilities have to do with the audio format, so stick to 48000 Hz PCM or AC3. That is, avoid MPEG1 Layer II, which really seems to rot on ambient noise unless the bitrate is 224 kbps or greater. My experience has been that DVD-R seems to work just about everywhere, except for one old Sony. I have heard that many people have trouble with DVD+R in Toshiba DVD players. I had to struggle to find a computer DVD-ROM drive that read DVD+R. Many play their movies on laptops, so this is important. A lot of people use the Sony Playstation 2 for DVD playback, but it has graduated support. The early units don't do DVD-R or +R, but the new ones apparently do both. I would guess that the PS2 is the most prevalent model of DVD player when comparing model to model.

October 21st, 2003, 01:57 PM	#5
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	Thanks Gints, I appreciate the info. These tidbits will probably save me a lot of frustration and probably money shortly. Brad Tyrrell

October 21st, 2003, 02:34 PM	#6
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Hey, check this out. The Sony PS2 is definitely the most prevalent DVD player model in existence. http://www.gamers.tv/articles/923/ 60 Million PS2 Units Shipped Sony have announced that cumulative worldwide shipment of the PS2 reached 60 million units on September 6, 2003.

October 22nd, 2003, 11:33 AM	#8
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	Thanks Ed, The dvdrhelp site is very helpful. Brad Tyrrell

October 23rd, 2003, 02:19 PM	#9
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	This might be a good read, scroll down to DVD Compatibility Test (July 2002 I think). http://www.dv.com/features/archive.jhtml Try and keep the bitrate down, use -R unless the client asks for +R, buy good name brand media and get your PCM audio to AC3 Dolby Streams if you can as they take up less bandwidth, don't use labels & burn at 1x, Good Luck Jake

October 24th, 2003, 09:30 AM	#10
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	Thanks Jake, I appreciate the advice and the reference. Brad Tyrrell

October 24th, 2003, 01:01 PM	#11
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	> burn at 1x, Jake, have you had problems at other burn speeds? I've burned 150+ DVD-Rs, mostly at 2x using a Pioneer A04. Thus far, I've had no playback problems, but I don't do a formal verify. Do you really think DVD burn speed is an issue with the latest round of DVD burners? Or, have you been using an older system that has issues with disk speed or network interruptions. I've never seen any recommend taking the system off the network during critical operations. Network cards and software generally use the highest priority interrupts.

October 24th, 2003, 01:43 PM	#12
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	Most, well basically all of my projects are replicated so I dont, personally, have too much to go on. I will say that I write all my check discs at 2x and test on a few players but if a proof copy is sent out it's written at 1x. If you're replicating from dvd-r(I don't recommend it) they say write at 1x and send atleast 2 copies incase 1 has too many errors. I know & come in contact with quite a few people who do use dvd-r quite a lot and I'd say yes it does play a part but there are so many variables with recordable media it's really tough to pin just 1 or 2 actual reasons down a lot of the time. Normally it's cheap media(non-brand) but the world is changing a lot at the moment. Some people have done 1000's of discs with labels and never had a problem others have done 20 and almost lost their job. As lots of 'experts' and very experienced people say write at 1x and not 2x or 4x to increase compatibility I'd say if time isn't an issue write at 1x if you can. But if you dont have a problem then you dont have a problem so it's really down to each individual author I guess.... Not sure if that helps any but I hope so...... Jake

October 24th, 2003, 02:33 PM	#13
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	I think an error rate table at various burn speeds from a DVD writer manufacturer is more useful. If I find one, I'll post it.

October 24th, 2003, 02:57 PM	#14
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	Did a search on a bunch of dv & dvd boards and it seems that writing problematic projects (written at 2x or 4x) again at 1x solved the issues folks were having quite a lot of the time. Yep a table would be a good thing but I doubt you'll find one. There are so many variables with recordable media that it wouldn't really prove much anyway. Burning faster makes the disc less compatible but how much for each individual situation is the big question. Not knowing is enough for some to stay with 1x I guess, Jake