DVD Producers - BEWARE - FLICKER TEST

Greg Voevodsky · March 6th, 2009, 09:53 PM

I have produced 12 DVDs with DV over the last 10 years of ocean waves and sunsets.
I am just finishing my first DVD from XDcam 1080p 29.97 to 720x480 DVD.

BEWARE - CONSUMER PLAYBACK vs PRO - PLAYBACK.

My footage looked great (95% like the HD footage) on HDMI connnected Plasmas and LCDs with little to no flicker or blocking on the waves.

HOWEVER, on component or s-vhs connected to the same plasmas and lcds (often with Vivid turned on as default from factory) - suddenly BLOCKY HORRIFIC FLICKERING ARTIFACTS appeared making great sharp footage - look like DVD mpeg blocking gone bad...

However, with Flicker filter turned on - that softens the footage a small bit, the artifacts disappear. Also on the high end HDMI - you can not really see any difference between the original and soften footage. But on the component lcd and plasma the horrific original footage now looks fine having been softened.

CONCLUSION - VIEW YOUR DVDS on real world plasma and lcd hdtvs with both HDMI - LOOK GREAT all the time... vs component and or bad Vivid settings (that crush your blacks and oversaturate your footage). Nasty artifacts are created by either the DVD player and or the HDTVS upscaling programs... softening the footage allows these upscalers to suddenly work. Otherwise sharp footage that looks fine on HDMI can fall apart with analog in.

I have not seen anyone else complain about this. I use bitvice for mpeg and its very sharp. Compressor is much softer and noisier even at max bitrate - so you probably wont have this problem. I shot the EX1 with detail on. Now, I will not. I will add detail or sharpen in post for the Blu-ray... and not for the DVD.

I cant wait to finish the Blu-ray... the DVD has been a pain in the @#$@# with all the transcoding and easy to mess up conversions. Now, I realize part of the problem is far worse than NTSC... ITS NTSC poorly upscaled to HDTV... done by the HDTV or players... And Vivid Settings on LCDS or Plasmas really crush and oversaturate things when using analog inputs... with HDMI there footage is far closer to what you mastered. Hope this helps! Burn test DVDs with various filter settings and view on different TVs. I tested 6 HDTVS - 3 PLASMAS, 2LCDS, 2 OLD TVS all with analog or digital inputs. Make sure you test this. Now, I can see why some reviews on amazon, say DVD looks soft or horrible. Well, its your hdtv connection and upscaling that created that - since it is not in the actual footage!

Steve Gibbons · March 7th, 2009, 12:09 AM

Compression artifacts should be consistent across any type of connection if they are all calibrated properly. A component connection, for example, will be no more prone to artifacts than an HDMI connection. The compression artifacts are in the original video source and not introduced by the type of cable being used.

It's a common mistake to assume that one group of monitor settings (contrast, brightness, hue, tint) will work across all the different inputs of a TV: HDMI, DVI, component, S-Video, composite. Often they will vary drastically. I know on one of my own TVs, even the two DVI inputs are slightly different (numeric value wise) when tweaking the hue.

High black levels are the usual culprit for exposing compression artifacts. It's important it's been set properly - people tend to set them higher than they should be.

Peter Moretti · March 11th, 2009, 06:01 AM

Could broadcast illegal colors also be the culprit? Perhaps the digital inputs are better equipped to deal them than are the analog ones.

March 6th, 2009, 09:53 PM	#1
Greg Voevodsky Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portola Valley Posts: 105	DVD Producers - BEWARE - FLICKER TEST - 1080P TO DVD. I have produced 12 DVDs with DV over the last 10 years of ocean waves and sunsets. I am just finishing my first DVD from XDcam 1080p 29.97 to 720x480 DVD. BEWARE - CONSUMER PLAYBACK vs PRO - PLAYBACK. My footage looked great (95% like the HD footage) on HDMI connnected Plasmas and LCDs with little to no flicker or blocking on the waves. HOWEVER, on component or s-vhs connected to the same plasmas and lcds (often with Vivid turned on as default from factory) - suddenly BLOCKY HORRIFIC FLICKERING ARTIFACTS appeared making great sharp footage - look like DVD mpeg blocking gone bad... However, with Flicker filter turned on - that softens the footage a small bit, the artifacts disappear. Also on the high end HDMI - you can not really see any difference between the original and soften footage. But on the component lcd and plasma the horrific original footage now looks fine having been softened. CONCLUSION - VIEW YOUR DVDS on real world plasma and lcd hdtvs with both HDMI - LOOK GREAT all the time... vs component and or bad Vivid settings (that crush your blacks and oversaturate your footage). Nasty artifacts are created by either the DVD player and or the HDTVS upscaling programs... softening the footage allows these upscalers to suddenly work. Otherwise sharp footage that looks fine on HDMI can fall apart with analog in. I have not seen anyone else complain about this. I use bitvice for mpeg and its very sharp. Compressor is much softer and noisier even at max bitrate - so you probably wont have this problem. I shot the EX1 with detail on. Now, I will not. I will add detail or sharpen in post for the Blu-ray... and not for the DVD. I cant wait to finish the Blu-ray... the DVD has been a pain in the @#$@# with all the transcoding and easy to mess up conversions. Now, I realize part of the problem is far worse than NTSC... ITS NTSC poorly upscaled to HDTV... done by the HDTV or players... And Vivid Settings on LCDS or Plasmas really crush and oversaturate things when using analog inputs... with HDMI there footage is far closer to what you mastered. Hope this helps! Burn test DVDs with various filter settings and view on different TVs. I tested 6 HDTVS - 3 PLASMAS, 2LCDS, 2 OLD TVS all with analog or digital inputs. Make sure you test this. Now, I can see why some reviews on amazon, say DVD looks soft or horrible. Well, its your hdtv connection and upscaling that created that - since it is not in the actual footage!

March 7th, 2009, 12:09 AM	#2
Steve Gibbons Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bridgenorth Posts: 116	Compression artifacts should be consistent across any type of connection if they are all calibrated properly. A component connection, for example, will be no more prone to artifacts than an HDMI connection. The compression artifacts are in the original video source and not introduced by the type of cable being used. It's a common mistake to assume that one group of monitor settings (contrast, brightness, hue, tint) will work across all the different inputs of a TV: HDMI, DVI, component, S-Video, composite. Often they will vary drastically. I know on one of my own TVs, even the two DVI inputs are slightly different (numeric value wise) when tweaking the hue. High black levels are the usual culprit for exposing compression artifacts. It's important it's been set properly - people tend to set them higher than they should be.

March 11th, 2009, 06:01 AM	#3
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Could broadcast illegal colors also be the culprit? Perhaps the digital inputs are better equipped to deal them than are the analog ones.