Is burning a DVD at home as robust as a pro shop burning one for you? For selling? at DVinfo.net

Ronald Lee · January 22nd, 2009, 02:26 PM

Hi, this could be more of a silly question just to reassure myself, but....

If authoring a DVD on basic software on your laptop as stable/robust as letting a pro house do it for you?

for me, I edit in Premiere, convert to mpeg-2 with TMPGenc source creator and create a DVD with TMPGenc DVD author. Can I hypothetically sell this to a private list of buyers?

I ask because I do notice artifacts in the DVD sometimes but I'm not sure if they are from:
My source
The compression with TMPGenc
How I burned it (just used the computer's DVD burner)
The disc media

If I kept the DVD in digital format and had someone with better burning equipment burn it, will it make a difference?

Glenn Fisher · January 22nd, 2009, 06:22 PM

Well, I'm not sure of any differences in quality (after all, it is only digital bits, so I don't see why there would be a difference in the quality of the actual video), but there are a few other differences.

If you burn DVDs from home, and you get an order for say, 50 DVDs, then you'll have to sit there while you wait for 50 DVDs to burn. (Which is exactly why I put additional drives in an old Dell computer that I had lying around and set it up to function as a duplicator).

If you're printing a cover onto the DVD (please please please don't use labels! they're often known to ruin slot-drives like those found in all of Apple's computers except the Mac Pro), a DVD duplicating service can probably print a higher quality cover onto the DVD.

You also have to be aware of bad DVDs if you burn them yourself. That would be a bit embarrassing (not to mention troublesome) if you delivered a bad disc to a paying customer!

Finally, you can only get copy protection by replication (which is not the same as duplication). Of course, what good is copy protection these days when any novice user can crack it? (Plus, in order to have a DVD replicated, you probably have to meet a certain minimum number of copies...my guess would be at least 500 or 1,000.)

I hope that helps!
Glenn Fisher

Tripp Woelfel · January 22nd, 2009, 08:33 PM

Glen's right. All things being equal your burn will be as good as the "pro shop". There's no quality difference like generational losses like with analog.

I'm also with Glen on no labels. If you're going to do it yourself, get printable media and a printer. Should be able to get an Epson for around US$150.

Karel Bata · January 23rd, 2009, 02:57 AM

Wouldn't a pro shop also have a minimum order of 500 copies or something like that?

I'd be hesitant to say that you can do the same thing as a pro shop. Far from it. For starters they will replicating (not duplicating, big difference) from a glass master. A quick Google also yields:

The ANSI labelled tape has to hold 3 files in order to make a proper image for LBR mastering:
control.dat
image.dat / main.dat
DDPID (ddp 2.00 protocol)
File Names: DDPID and DDPMS will be combined into one file named DDPID. Lead-in control data file is set in DDPMS map packet 1. DVD image file name is set in DDPMS map packet 2. File contents: Lead-in control data will contain one 32k block of the DVD lead-in control data. DVD image file will contain unscrambled 2048 bytes per sector and is program data only. DVD image file must contain a multiple of 32,768 bytes. Lead-in, middle area and lead-out are not allowed in the DVD image file.

You may find this useful Apple (United Kingdom) - Final Cut Studio 2 - DVD Studio Pro 4 - Versatile DVD Mastering
.

Josh Swan · January 23rd, 2009, 12:40 PM

I've printed 1000's of DVD on my mac and epson R200 and epson Rx680 printer, with hundreds also done at printing houses. I print DVD's for the same client who we get some other DVD's at a replication house, they never complain of there being a difference. But when we are talking 1000's of the same video, it will be cheaper by far at a duplication house. But as far as quality, the printing on top of the printable DVD's with my epson is of really good quality. I have however sent a few out that were not burned. You have to figure out a good system to make sure you don't overlook burning a DVD. I use Verbatim printable DVD's, they work awesome!

Karel Bata · January 23rd, 2009, 01:37 PM

OK OK, maybe I'm being a bit picky. I'm sure that with care it's possible to make many DVD copies with the right domestic equipment, and I too would be interested to hear about how it's done, but truth is those copies must be riddled with errors, but with modern error correction, does that really matter..? Probably not. So Ronald, ignore my previous post - it's for the purists only!

Heath McKnight · January 23rd, 2009, 01:40 PM

Well, let's say you order DVD-9s from a shop--they have around 9 GB of storage, which means less compression. A DVD-R holds around 4.5 GB, which means more compression.

But, DVD-9 is expensive and has high minimum orders.

heath

Aric Mannion · January 23rd, 2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel Bata

OK OK, maybe I'm being a bit picky. I'm sure that with care it's possible to make many DVD copies with the right domestic equipment, and I too would be interested to hear about how it's done, but truth is those copies must be riddled with errors, but with modern error correction, does that really matter..? Probably not. So Ronald, ignore my previous post - it's for the purists only!

It's my opinion that sending your work to a encoding house would give you better results. They have crazy hardware doing this stuff, and it should absolutely look better. If it does not look any better, or you see problem areas, you should be able to point them out and they should fix it for you. There is not necessarily a minimum number of dvds to print, and they should be able to make just 1 (w/ a few back ups) if that is what you want.

Heath McKnight · January 23rd, 2009, 04:01 PM

My experience with DVD duplicators is that they make DVD-Rs and have a minimum order, unless it's CreateSpace (www.createspace.com), which is On Demand publishing, no minimums, etc.

Those making DVD-9s have huge minimum orders. I usually call once a year to get quotes and it's usually 100 minimum. I haven't called since late 2007, though.

heath

Tony Nguyen · February 3rd, 2009, 09:59 AM

Here's an idea,

If you have a few burners laying around, you can hook it all to a spare(or main) computer. Use that computer as a dedicated duplicator. Nero 7 or higher has the option of burning more than one dvd at the same time on multiple drives. The more dvd burners you have hooked up, the faster you get done. Dvd burners are like $25 bucks now.

This is pretty much like what I'm talking about>>>> Aleratec | 1:7 DVD/CD Tower Publisher SLS | 260173 | B&H Photo

Tom Roper · February 3rd, 2009, 10:51 AM

Burners are not all created equal. Neither is media. Both need to be tested, so that you have quality burns. This is easily done with various software, need not be expensive. Some may even come with the burner, Plextor comes to mind. What you are checking for mainly is parity inner errors, parity outer errors, tracking errors.

I've had good and bad burners, and media. Some bad burners were in laptops, other laptops had good burners, but PC burners from NEC, LG, Lite-On, Philips and Plextor have good reputations.

For media, you'll find general agreement that Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim are consistently the most reliable.

Karel Bata · February 3rd, 2009, 11:37 AM

"The more dvd burners you have hooked up, the faster you get done."

And the more errors you will introduce...? You may well be lucky and have a a setup like that work for you (4 DVD burners into 4 USB ports for instance?). But I bet you'll instead waste many hours trying to figure out where various probs are coming from...

Tony Nguyen · February 3rd, 2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel Bata

"The more dvd burners you have hooked up, the faster you get done."

And the more errors you will introduce...? You may well be lucky and have a a setup like that work for you (4 DVD burners into 4 USB ports for instance?). But I bet you'll instead waste many hours trying to figure out where various probs are coming from...

True! Also the speed of each drive will not be at 100% of course. If you set each drive to write at a slow speed then you should be fine. USB drives are a NO NO. SATA connections are about two times faster than USB 2.0. If you're only going to burn 50 dvds then I wouldn't mind taking chances and not deal with the minimum order requirements of distributors. I think the newer versions of Nero handle much better.

This was a test for CD-Rs with great results. Not sure how DVDs will work out.
"I had ask in an eralier thread weather or not it would work using Nero's 'Burn to Multiple Devices' option with 4 IDE burners, well I found out today." (Nero and Multiple Burners, pt.2 - Topic Powered by Eve For Enterprise)

Ervin Farkas · February 3rd, 2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel Bata

Wouldn't a pro shop also have a minimum order of 500 copies or something like that? I'd be hesitant to say that you can do the same thing as a pro shop. Far from it. For starters they will replicating (not duplicating, big difference)...

Not necessarily.

I've had 150 ordered. And I had to choose wether I want replicated or duplicated.

January 22nd, 2009, 02:26 PM	#1
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Is burning a DVD at home as robust as a pro shop burning one for you? For selling? Hi, this could be more of a silly question just to reassure myself, but.... If authoring a DVD on basic software on your laptop as stable/robust as letting a pro house do it for you? for me, I edit in Premiere, convert to mpeg-2 with TMPGenc source creator and create a DVD with TMPGenc DVD author. Can I hypothetically sell this to a private list of buyers? I ask because I do notice artifacts in the DVD sometimes but I'm not sure if they are from: My source The compression with TMPGenc How I burned it (just used the computer's DVD burner) The disc media If I kept the DVD in digital format and had someone with better burning equipment burn it, will it make a difference?

January 23rd, 2009, 02:57 AM	#4
Karel Bata Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London, Antarctica Posts: 199	Wouldn't a pro shop also have a minimum order of 500 copies or something like that? I'd be hesitant to say that you can do the same thing as a pro shop. Far from it. For starters they will replicating (not duplicating, big difference) from a glass master. A quick Google also yields: The ANSI labelled tape has to hold 3 files in order to make a proper image for LBR mastering: control.dat image.dat / main.dat DDPID (ddp 2.00 protocol) File Names: DDPID and DDPMS will be combined into one file named DDPID. Lead-in control data file is set in DDPMS map packet 1. DVD image file name is set in DDPMS map packet 2. File contents: Lead-in control data will contain one 32k block of the DVD lead-in control data. DVD image file will contain unscrambled 2048 bytes per sector and is program data only. DVD image file must contain a multiple of 32,768 bytes. Lead-in, middle area and lead-out are not allowed in the DVD image file. You may find this useful Apple (United Kingdom) - Final Cut Studio 2 - DVD Studio Pro 4 - Versatile DVD Mastering . __________________ What are the Alternatives to YouTube?

January 23rd, 2009, 12:40 PM	#5
Josh Swan Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scarborough Me Posts: 186	Quality I've printed 1000's of DVD on my mac and epson R200 and epson Rx680 printer, with hundreds also done at printing houses. I print DVD's for the same client who we get some other DVD's at a replication house, they never complain of there being a difference. But when we are talking 1000's of the same video, it will be cheaper by far at a duplication house. But as far as quality, the printing on top of the printable DVD's with my epson is of really good quality. I have however sent a few out that were not burned. You have to figure out a good system to make sure you don't overlook burning a DVD. I use Verbatim printable DVD's, they work awesome!

January 23rd, 2009, 01:40 PM	#7
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Well, let's say you order DVD-9s from a shop--they have around 9 GB of storage, which means less compression. A DVD-R holds around 4.5 GB, which means more compression. But, DVD-9 is expensive and has high minimum orders. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 23rd, 2009, 04:01 PM	#9
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	My experience with DVD duplicators is that they make DVD-Rs and have a minimum order, unless it's CreateSpace (www.createspace.com), which is On Demand publishing, no minimums, etc. Those making DVD-9s have huge minimum orders. I usually call once a year to get quotes and it's usually 100 minimum. I haven't called since late 2007, though. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 22nd, 2009, 06:22 PM	#2
Glenn Fisher Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bridgewater, NJ Posts: 65	Well, I'm not sure of any differences in quality (after all, it is only digital bits, so I don't see why there would be a difference in the quality of the actual video), but there are a few other differences. If you burn DVDs from home, and you get an order for say, 50 DVDs, then you'll have to sit there while you wait for 50 DVDs to burn. (Which is exactly why I put additional drives in an old Dell computer that I had lying around and set it up to function as a duplicator). If you're printing a cover onto the DVD (please please please don't use labels! they're often known to ruin slot-drives like those found in all of Apple's computers except the Mac Pro), a DVD duplicating service can probably print a higher quality cover onto the DVD. You also have to be aware of bad DVDs if you burn them yourself. That would be a bit embarrassing (not to mention troublesome) if you delivered a bad disc to a paying customer! Finally, you can only get copy protection by replication (which is not the same as duplication). Of course, what good is copy protection these days when any novice user can crack it? (Plus, in order to have a DVD replicated, you probably have to meet a certain minimum number of copies...my guess would be at least 500 or 1,000.) I hope that helps! Glenn Fisher

January 22nd, 2009, 08:33 PM	#3
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Glen's right. All things being equal your burn will be as good as the "pro shop". There's no quality difference like generational losses like with analog. I'm also with Glen on no labels. If you're going to do it yourself, get printable media and a printer. Should be able to get an Epson for around US$150.

January 23rd, 2009, 01:37 PM	#6
Karel Bata Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London, Antarctica Posts: 199	OK OK, maybe I'm being a bit picky. I'm sure that with care it's possible to make many DVD copies with the right domestic equipment, and I too would be interested to hear about how it's done, but truth is those copies must be riddled with errors, but with modern error correction, does that really matter..? Probably not. So Ronald, ignore my previous post - it's for the purists only!

February 3rd, 2009, 09:59 AM	#10
Tony Nguyen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 107	Use Nero 7 Here's an idea, If you have a few burners laying around, you can hook it all to a spare(or main) computer. Use that computer as a dedicated duplicator. Nero 7 or higher has the option of burning more than one dvd at the same time on multiple drives. The more dvd burners you have hooked up, the faster you get done. Dvd burners are like $25 bucks now. This is pretty much like what I'm talking about>>>> Aleratec \| 1:7 DVD/CD Tower Publisher SLS \| 260173 \| B&H Photo

February 3rd, 2009, 10:51 AM	#11
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Burners are not all created equal. Neither is media. Both need to be tested, so that you have quality burns. This is easily done with various software, need not be expensive. Some may even come with the burner, Plextor comes to mind. What you are checking for mainly is parity inner errors, parity outer errors, tracking errors. I've had good and bad burners, and media. Some bad burners were in laptops, other laptops had good burners, but PC burners from NEC, LG, Lite-On, Philips and Plextor have good reputations. For media, you'll find general agreement that Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim are consistently the most reliable.

February 3rd, 2009, 11:37 AM	#12
Karel Bata Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London, Antarctica Posts: 199	"The more dvd burners you have hooked up, the faster you get done." And the more errors you will introduce...? You may well be lucky and have a a setup like that work for you (4 DVD burners into 4 USB ports for instance?). But I bet you'll instead waste many hours trying to figure out where various probs are coming from... __________________ What are the Alternatives to YouTube?