DVD-R, two out of six menu choices works... at DVinfo.net

Lars Siden · August 19th, 2003, 01:02 PM

Hi,

Made a DVD using Vegas 4.0c and DVD Architect 1.0c. The DVD contains 3 film clips ( about 10 minutes each ). And three slideshows ( I imported a bunch of pictures on the timeline in vegas, added a default transition and a soundtrack, rendered as MPEG 2 dvd/pal ).

DVD burner is an updated(new bios) Pioneer A04 DVD-R.

On my home(standalone) DVD player ( a four years old Pioneer ) I can watch all videoclips OK, but the slideshows "stutters" and hangs ( even though they are just videoclips as well... )

On my brothers internal PC DVD player(realmagic cinema), only 2 video clips works, If we try yo play the rest, the computer freezes.

When I produced the MPEG files I used the DVD Arch profiles from Vegas when I genereated the MPEG files. DA didn't complain on the files ( ie no re-compressing reported ).

Just curious, is this kind of problems common? Should I get a better(?) burner? I will replace my old home DVD with a KISS DVD player(that does MPEG2/DivX and Webradio) ...but even though the discs my work at my home, I'd like them to work everywhere possible.

Best Regards,

Lazze

Sweden

Peter Moore · August 19th, 2003, 01:42 PM

I suggest trying different types of media. DVD-Rs are very iffy on all players. Some say DVD+Rs are better, but truth is all recordable DVD media have issues with different players. It's unlikely that it's a problem with your burner or software.

Jake Russell · August 19th, 2003, 02:29 PM

Old link but still covers the pitfalls of recordable media:

http://www.dv.com/features/features_...02/labarge0702

Jake

Gints Klimanis · August 19th, 2003, 02:32 PM

Hi,

I've used a Pioneer A04 to burn over a dozen original DVDs with Pinnacle Studio8.5.21 and replicate them to perhaps 150? total copies. Although individual DVD-R units have issues, this model is proven. Have you checked your IDE configuration? My A04 dislikes sharing its IDE bus/channel with any other device, slave or not.

Are you using DVD-R or RW ?

Jake Russell · August 19th, 2003, 02:47 PM

"....and replicate them to perhaps 150? total copies."

Duplicate not replicate. Big difference.

Jake

Gints Klimanis · August 19th, 2003, 03:23 PM

The words are nearly identical unless a cellular biologist is involved.

From MSN dictionary:

-----------------------------------
du·pli·cate

transitive verb (past du·pli·cat·ed, past participle du·pli·cat·ed, present participle du·pli·cat·ing, 3rd person present singular du·pli·cates)

1. copy something: to make an exact copy of something

2. repeat something: to do something more than once, especially unknowingly or unnecessarily

-----------------------------
rep·li·cate

verb (past rep·li·cat·ed, past participle rep·li·cat·ed, present participle rep·li·cat·ing, 3rd person present singular rep·li·cates)

1. transitive verb do something again: to do something again or copy something

2. intransitive verb be done again: to undergo a repetition or reproduction

3. transitive verb biology copy cellular or genetic material: to reproduce exactly an organism, genetic material, or a cell

Jake Russell · August 20th, 2003, 02:42 AM

Ok dont say I didn't try and help you or someone else. If you replicate a disc it is totally different to duplicating it.

A replication facility will use the DLT to cut a glass master and make stamping masters.(Some replicators first verify the DLT formatting and check for spec compliance) The replicator will send you check discs made from the master, some may charge for this. Once you approve the check disc then they will carry on with the run.

Duplication is basically writing the info to disc like from a home burner as oppose to stamping. You can get duplication towers that can write several discs at once. But will have all the downsides of recordable media as you would expect.

Replication has many advantages over recordable media which I wont go into now, maybe others will. But if you replicate from DLT you can get away with higher bitrates, get higher compatibility and can have things like copy protection on the disc.

There is quite a bit to this topic but I hope things are a touch clearer, dvdland has it's own dictionary I'll find a link,

Jake

David Hurdon · August 20th, 2003, 04:49 AM

Lars, I have had great results with low level DVD authoring software and a Pioneer 103 burner, except when using paper labels or 4X media, bought in error. I think the main culprit in poor performance is data rates that are too high. Hollywood can go above 9 Mbps but burned disks should stay around 6-7 for best compatibility. I don't know the Vegas bundle so I can't tell you where to set your data rate but I'd be surprised if you couldn't. I also don't work in PAL, where the DVD spec allows MPEG2 audio, which it doesn't in NTSC - although I've read that some players will handle it. You mention using profiles to write your MPEG2 files. Is it possible that some were built at higher data rates than others? This might explain why some play more reliably.

David Hurdon

Lars Siden · August 20th, 2003, 05:17 AM

Hi,

Thanks all your your valuable input!

I believe my pitfall is to high datarates. The files are between 8 and 9 mb/sec.

Will re-compress the media and burn a new DVD.

Replicate and duplicate -> Maybe the follow up to the film "The sixth day"( don't really know the english title... you know the A scharwarzneger movie )

Best regards,

Lazze

Jake Russell · August 20th, 2003, 05:42 AM

Yep the 6th day.

It usually is bitrate, brand or just the fact that dvd-r isn't supported by the player being tested. Hope everything gets sorted out,

Good luck,

Jake

Rob Lohman · August 20th, 2003, 05:52 AM

The max datarate is 9.8 mbps. That is the absolute maximum
(if you want to stay compliant). BUT, in my experience a lot of
older and or cheaper players have trouble with very high bitrates.

Also keep in mind that this is the TOTAL bitrate. So that includes
video, audio, subtitles etc. Personally I wouldn't go over 8 mbps
to stay safe....

Jake Russell · August 20th, 2003, 05:57 AM

Not quite. Total is 10.08 Mbps.

Thats why its great to be able to encode 2-pass VBR as you can set the min, max and avg bitrate. Also another bandwidth saver is using dolby streams instead of PCM audio.

Yep keep the avg bitrate down but if you've got VBR then you should be able to encode movement and other things at higher bitrates as long as it doesn't peak for too long/high you should be ok, especially if you have AC-3 audio.

Jake

Rob Lohman · August 20th, 2003, 06:10 AM

Indeed, I typed the number a bit too fast. The video can be a
max of 9.8 mbps. Total max is 10.08.... My bad.

Jake Russell · August 20th, 2003, 06:19 AM

LOL :) I replied a bit too fast my bad,

Jake

Gints Klimanis · August 20th, 2003, 12:53 PM

Jake,

Thanks for the industry buzzword rundown. I'll be sure to differentiate between the two words when I make a video product.

August 19th, 2003, 01:02 PM	#1
Lars Siden Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden, Stockholm Posts: 469	DVD-R, two out of six menu choices works... Hi, Made a DVD using Vegas 4.0c and DVD Architect 1.0c. The DVD contains 3 film clips ( about 10 minutes each ). And three slideshows ( I imported a bunch of pictures on the timeline in vegas, added a default transition and a soundtrack, rendered as MPEG 2 dvd/pal ). DVD burner is an updated(new bios) Pioneer A04 DVD-R. On my home(standalone) DVD player ( a four years old Pioneer ) I can watch all videoclips OK, but the slideshows "stutters" and hangs ( even though they are just videoclips as well... ) On my brothers internal PC DVD player(realmagic cinema), only 2 video clips works, If we try yo play the rest, the computer freezes. When I produced the MPEG files I used the DVD Arch profiles from Vegas when I genereated the MPEG files. DA didn't complain on the files ( ie no re-compressing reported ). Just curious, is this kind of problems common? Should I get a better(?) burner? I will replace my old home DVD with a KISS DVD player(that does MPEG2/DivX and Webradio) ...but even though the discs my work at my home, I'd like them to work everywhere possible. Best Regards, Lazze Sweden __________________ Sony HDR-CX130,Canon 5DMKII,i7 930@4.0, 12gb memory, 3x SSD + 2x1Tb(stripe), Geforce 480, Dual 24", Win 7 x64

August 20th, 2003, 04:49 AM	#8
David Hurdon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 484	Lars, I have had great results with low level DVD authoring software and a Pioneer 103 burner, except when using paper labels or 4X media, bought in error. I think the main culprit in poor performance is data rates that are too high. Hollywood can go above 9 Mbps but burned disks should stay around 6-7 for best compatibility. I don't know the Vegas bundle so I can't tell you where to set your data rate but I'd be surprised if you couldn't. I also don't work in PAL, where the DVD spec allows MPEG2 audio, which it doesn't in NTSC - although I've read that some players will handle it. You mention using profiles to write your MPEG2 files. Is it possible that some were built at higher data rates than others? This might explain why some play more reliably. David Hurdon __________________ Site:http://www.faceliftmarketing.ca Blog:http://www.websitevideo.blogspot.com

August 20th, 2003, 05:17 AM	#9
Lars Siden Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden, Stockholm Posts: 469	Hi, Thanks all your your valuable input! I believe my pitfall is to high datarates. The files are between 8 and 9 mb/sec. Will re-compress the media and burn a new DVD. Replicate and duplicate -> Maybe the follow up to the film "The sixth day"( don't really know the english title... you know the A scharwarzneger movie ) Best regards, Lazze __________________ Sony HDR-CX130,Canon 5DMKII,i7 930@4.0, 12gb memory, 3x SSD + 2x1Tb(stripe), Geforce 480, Dual 24", Win 7 x64

August 20th, 2003, 05:52 AM	#11
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	The max datarate is 9.8 mbps. That is the absolute maximum (if you want to stay compliant). BUT, in my experience a lot of older and or cheaper players have trouble with very high bitrates. Also keep in mind that this is the TOTAL bitrate. So that includes video, audio, subtitles etc. Personally I wouldn't go over 8 mbps to stay safe.... __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 20th, 2003, 06:10 AM	#13
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Indeed, I typed the number a bit too fast. The video can be a max of 9.8 mbps. Total max is 10.08.... My bad. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

August 19th, 2003, 01:42 PM	#2
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	I suggest trying different types of media. DVD-Rs are very iffy on all players. Some say DVD+Rs are better, but truth is all recordable DVD media have issues with different players. It's unlikely that it's a problem with your burner or software.

August 19th, 2003, 02:29 PM	#3
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	Old link but still covers the pitfalls of recordable media: http://www.dv.com/features/features_...02/labarge0702 Jake

August 19th, 2003, 02:32 PM	#4
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Hi, I've used a Pioneer A04 to burn over a dozen original DVDs with Pinnacle Studio8.5.21 and replicate them to perhaps 150? total copies. Although individual DVD-R units have issues, this model is proven. Have you checked your IDE configuration? My A04 dislikes sharing its IDE bus/channel with any other device, slave or not. Are you using DVD-R or RW ?

August 19th, 2003, 02:47 PM	#5
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	"....and replicate them to perhaps 150? total copies." Duplicate not replicate. Big difference. Jake

August 19th, 2003, 03:23 PM	#6
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	The words are nearly identical unless a cellular biologist is involved. From MSN dictionary: ----------------------------------- du·pli·cate transitive verb (past du·pli·cat·ed, past participle du·pli·cat·ed, present participle du·pli·cat·ing, 3rd person present singular du·pli·cates) 1. copy something: to make an exact copy of something 2. repeat something: to do something more than once, especially unknowingly or unnecessarily ----------------------------- rep·li·cate verb (past rep·li·cat·ed, past participle rep·li·cat·ed, present participle rep·li·cat·ing, 3rd person present singular rep·li·cates) 1. transitive verb do something again: to do something again or copy something 2. intransitive verb be done again: to undergo a repetition or reproduction 3. transitive verb biology copy cellular or genetic material: to reproduce exactly an organism, genetic material, or a cell

August 20th, 2003, 02:42 AM	#7
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	Ok dont say I didn't try and help you or someone else. If you replicate a disc it is totally different to duplicating it. A replication facility will use the DLT to cut a glass master and make stamping masters.(Some replicators first verify the DLT formatting and check for spec compliance) The replicator will send you check discs made from the master, some may charge for this. Once you approve the check disc then they will carry on with the run. Duplication is basically writing the info to disc like from a home burner as oppose to stamping. You can get duplication towers that can write several discs at once. But will have all the downsides of recordable media as you would expect. Replication has many advantages over recordable media which I wont go into now, maybe others will. But if you replicate from DLT you can get away with higher bitrates, get higher compatibility and can have things like copy protection on the disc. There is quite a bit to this topic but I hope things are a touch clearer, dvdland has it's own dictionary I'll find a link, Jake

August 20th, 2003, 05:42 AM	#10
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	Yep the 6th day. It usually is bitrate, brand or just the fact that dvd-r isn't supported by the player being tested. Hope everything gets sorted out, Good luck, Jake

August 20th, 2003, 05:57 AM	#12
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	Not quite. Total is 10.08 Mbps. Thats why its great to be able to encode 2-pass VBR as you can set the min, max and avg bitrate. Also another bandwidth saver is using dolby streams instead of PCM audio. Yep keep the avg bitrate down but if you've got VBR then you should be able to encode movement and other things at higher bitrates as long as it doesn't peak for too long/high you should be ok, especially if you have AC-3 audio. Jake

August 20th, 2003, 06:19 AM	#14
Jake Russell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 177	LOL :) I replied a bit too fast my bad, Jake

August 20th, 2003, 12:53 PM	#15
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Jake, Thanks for the industry buzzword rundown. I'll be sure to differentiate between the two words when I make a video product.