Interlace Flicker on first DVD?!

Glen Elliott · July 10th, 2003, 11:05 AM

1- Yes, that's what I've been doing- and been specifically using a section that shows the stuttering really bad.

2- Tried that as well, used all default settings- but changed the bit-rate to 7000. Same results, the picture still was jittery.

3- As far as media I use Sony DVD-Rs

4- Good idea about using RW media, never even thought of that. Could have saved myself from wasting several discs at this point.

5- I never use labels. Only on CDs or VCDs NEVER on DVDs.

As far as authoring programs I'm using both Sonic MyDVD and Sonic DVDit. Both yeilded the same results.

I have about 10 versions of the same clip encoded with various settings including changes in field order, bit rate, vbr/cbr/2-pass vbr, GOP adjustments, and some "DC" setting that goes from 8 to 10 that's supposed to be good for "complicated footage" ...somehting to do with the bits assigned to the footage (I dunno) it's in the advanced section of Procoder. I'm gonna burn all these clips to a new disc and label each link carefully and just click away and see which ones if any play any better. I really don't know what else to do at this point.

All your help is greatly appreciated.

Ron Little · July 10th, 2003, 11:25 AM

Glen when you play the clips in DVDit doses the stutter take place or doses it just take place when you have burned it to DVD?

Arnaldo Paixao · July 10th, 2003, 11:28 AM

Hi.

You are now experiencing what I'v come across in DVD world: Many hours of frustration until I got it right.

If you'r planning on doing professional work (and getting paid for that) and if you have the money to invest, I can tell you what system to assemble and how it is done, based on what I use.

Meanwile, give some more info so I can try to help you:
(Sorry if some of this is to obvious)

1 - Are we talking DV or analog video?
2 - The stutter shows on your NLE or only in DVD?
3 - Playing the DVD in your PC DVD drive and on the set top player shows the same problems?
4 - Have you tried playing the DVD in different set top players?

Bye
Arnaldo

Glen Elliott · July 10th, 2003, 12:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Arnaldo Paixao : Hi.

You are now experiencing what I'v come across in DVD world: Many hours of frustration until I got it right.

If you'r planning on doing professional work (and getting paid for that) and if you have the money to invest, I can tell you what system to assemble and how it is done, based on what I use.

Meanwile, give some more info so I can try to help you:
(Sorry if some of this is to obvious)

1 - Are we talking DV or analog video?
DV
2 - The stutter shows on your NLE or only in DVD?
Only on DVD
3 - Playing the DVD in your PC DVD drive and on the set top player shows the same problems?
Plays fine in my computer. Exibits the jerky motion when played on a stand-alone player on the TV. I'm assuming because computer monitors are progressive displays. So that would lead me to think it's a field issue.
4 - Have you tried playing the DVD in different set top players?
I've tried it in 2 different players- both Sony. One was an older model like 3-4 years old and another is a new Progressive Scan model. Both had the same results.

Bye
Arnaldo -->>>

Ed Smith · July 10th, 2003, 02:01 PM

How about deinterlacing the footage on the time line and then exporting out using your MPEG encoder?

Try it on a small piece with a pan and let us know

Just a thought,

Ed Smith

Glen Elliott · July 10th, 2003, 09:16 PM

I made a test disc tonight of about 12 versions of the same short clip with different settings applied to them. I specifically chose a clip that showed the jerkyness of the video. The changes I made from one version of the file to the next included: choosing upper and lower fields, changing encoding qualities, changing bit rate, changing bit rate type (cbr, vbr), changed GOP settings, etc. ALL played exactly the same accept for ONE clip! The one clip I ran a Procoder filter on, called "adaptive deinterlace". Granted it wasn't perfect but noticably better than before. Mabye I'll try choosing "none" in the field type. Will that have any adverse effect on my footage beings it IS interlaced to begin with?!

Arnaldo Paixao · July 11th, 2003, 02:25 AM

Hi Glen.

Have'nt given up on you yet!

To be dead shure that it is not a field order issue and assuming you'r using Premiere (if you use another program try to find out how it is done), go to project settings and check that your video FILE, your PROJECT and your EXPORT settings all have the same field order. You must be shure of this before you look for other reasons.
It's those tiny bity details that can drive you crazy...

Good luck and keep us posted.
Arnaldo

Joe Cinquina · July 11th, 2003, 09:58 AM

And it is due to using 8000 CBR! My set top player can not handle it through out. As soon as I backed down about it went away. The only prblem is the quality hit you take. And if you do stuff with a lot of titles and text you will see the quality hit there, big time.

I wish there was some sort of guidlines out there. For instance:

Lenghth of video Motion Text Bit rate
60 min High Yes 6500 vbr

Something like that.

Glen Elliott · July 11th, 2003, 01:29 PM

Nope because I ran the same clip @ 6000 and it played exactly the same as 8000. Though I'll take heed in the future setting such a high bitrate @ CBR. I don't want to make a DVD that a clients old DVD player can't handle.

Roy Roberts · July 11th, 2003, 07:11 PM

HI. using Dvdit. when I have problems that are similar. I use VBR and make the dvd to disk folder. then I burn the dvd as data. ie the audio and video folders. Just a shot in the dark really. By the way, sometimes DVDit gives false previews but they go when the DvD is made.

Glen Elliott · July 12th, 2003, 09:23 AM

DVDit gives false previews? Not sure what you mean. The MPG2 looks fine when played on the pc, it only shows it while played back on the television.

I just got my copy of Vegas+DVD so mabye I'll try rendering and authoring it with this- though I'm a fish out of water with DVD Architec....I'll have to learn swiftly.

In the meantime there are a few other things I can try beings the "adaptive interlace" filter seemed to improve the ghosting/flickering of the pans dramatically. I'm also going to try and burn a few using "none" as the field order just to see what happens.

Roy Roberts · July 12th, 2003, 10:08 AM

when I say false previews, what I should have said is that sometimes the sound and video are out of sync in DVDit preview mode. sorry.
Look, if you want to email me about 10 or 20 secs of your video I will try it on my system for you and burn a DVD and let you know the results....

Peter Moore · July 12th, 2003, 03:54 PM

The problem is undoubtedly related to the field order, but it might not be at the MPEG encoding end.

I assume you captured originally on DV and then imported. Make sure lower field order is selected then. What video software are you using? With Vegas, I've found that you must specify blend fields as the deinterlacing method all the time, even for interlaced footage, so make sure that's set.

Then when you encode to MPEG2, make sure the field orders once again match.

Worse comes to worst, you can always make the video progressive by deinterlacing.

Glen Elliott · July 12th, 2003, 04:22 PM

Roy I might actually take you up on that offer- though keep in mind it'll be NTSC DV AVI, not PAL. Let me know if it's still ok and I'll send it to you Sunday night when I get home (writing on here from my gf's computer).

Peter, I haven't used Vegas for capturing or extensive editing yet I just got the retail version a day or so ago. The project I'm having problems with was capture via Premiere thru my Pinnacle DV500 card- and I did double check to make sure lower fields first was set throughout my workflow....which it was.

Peter Moore · July 12th, 2003, 04:54 PM

Ok, when you export in premier, check the settings carefully, specifically keyframe and rendering. Make sure the fields are set to lower fields first there as well if you haven't already. Also under Special, make sure Deinterlace is off. This is when you select File | Export Movie and click on settings next to the file type.

You might also right clip on your clips, click advanced, and click Interpret Footage to make sure everything there is kosher as well.

That's about all I can think of right now.

July 10th, 2003, 02:01 PM	#20
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	How about deinterlacing the footage on the time line and then exporting out using your MPEG encoder? Try it on a small piece with a pan and let us know Just a thought, Ed Smith __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

July 10th, 2003, 09:16 PM	#21
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Made SOME progress tonight.... I made a test disc tonight of about 12 versions of the same short clip with different settings applied to them. I specifically chose a clip that showed the jerkyness of the video. The changes I made from one version of the file to the next included: choosing upper and lower fields, changing encoding qualities, changing bit rate, changing bit rate type (cbr, vbr), changed GOP settings, etc. ALL played exactly the same accept for ONE clip! The one clip I ran a Procoder filter on, called "adaptive deinterlace". Granted it wasn't perfect but noticably better than before. Mabye I'll try choosing "none" in the field type. Will that have any adverse effect on my footage beings it IS interlaced to begin with?!

July 11th, 2003, 09:58 AM	#23
Joe Cinquina Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lomita, Ca Posts: 25	I have had the same problem And it is due to using 8000 CBR! My set top player can not handle it through out. As soon as I backed down about it went away. The only prblem is the quality hit you take. And if you do stuff with a lot of titles and text you will see the quality hit there, big time. I wish there was some sort of guidlines out there. For instance: Lenghth of video Motion Text Bit rate 60 min High Yes 6500 vbr Something like that.

July 10th, 2003, 11:05 AM	#16
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	1- Yes, that's what I've been doing- and been specifically using a section that shows the stuttering really bad. 2- Tried that as well, used all default settings- but changed the bit-rate to 7000. Same results, the picture still was jittery. 3- As far as media I use Sony DVD-Rs 4- Good idea about using RW media, never even thought of that. Could have saved myself from wasting several discs at this point. 5- I never use labels. Only on CDs or VCDs NEVER on DVDs. As far as authoring programs I'm using both Sonic MyDVD and Sonic DVDit. Both yeilded the same results. I have about 10 versions of the same clip encoded with various settings including changes in field order, bit rate, vbr/cbr/2-pass vbr, GOP adjustments, and some "DC" setting that goes from 8 to 10 that's supposed to be good for "complicated footage" ...somehting to do with the bits assigned to the footage (I dunno) it's in the advanced section of Procoder. I'm gonna burn all these clips to a new disc and label each link carefully and just click away and see which ones if any play any better. I really don't know what else to do at this point. All your help is greatly appreciated.

July 10th, 2003, 11:25 AM	#17
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	Glen when you play the clips in DVDit doses the stutter take place or doses it just take place when you have burned it to DVD?

July 10th, 2003, 11:28 AM	#18
Arnaldo Paixao Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vimeiro - Portugal Posts: 255	Hi. You are now experiencing what I'v come across in DVD world: Many hours of frustration until I got it right. If you'r planning on doing professional work (and getting paid for that) and if you have the money to invest, I can tell you what system to assemble and how it is done, based on what I use. Meanwile, give some more info so I can try to help you: (Sorry if some of this is to obvious) 1 - Are we talking DV or analog video? 2 - The stutter shows on your NLE or only in DVD? 3 - Playing the DVD in your PC DVD drive and on the set top player shows the same problems? 4 - Have you tried playing the DVD in different set top players? Bye Arnaldo

July 10th, 2003, 12:56 PM	#19
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	<<<-- Originally posted by Arnaldo Paixao : Hi. You are now experiencing what I'v come across in DVD world: Many hours of frustration until I got it right. If you'r planning on doing professional work (and getting paid for that) and if you have the money to invest, I can tell you what system to assemble and how it is done, based on what I use. Meanwile, give some more info so I can try to help you: (Sorry if some of this is to obvious) 1 - Are we talking DV or analog video? DV 2 - The stutter shows on your NLE or only in DVD? Only on DVD 3 - Playing the DVD in your PC DVD drive and on the set top player shows the same problems? Plays fine in my computer. Exibits the jerky motion when played on a stand-alone player on the TV. I'm assuming because computer monitors are progressive displays. So that would lead me to think it's a field issue. 4 - Have you tried playing the DVD in different set top players? I've tried it in 2 different players- both Sony. One was an older model like 3-4 years old and another is a new Progressive Scan model. Both had the same results. Bye Arnaldo -->>>

July 11th, 2003, 02:25 AM	#22
Arnaldo Paixao Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vimeiro - Portugal Posts: 255	Hi Glen. Have'nt given up on you yet! To be dead shure that it is not a field order issue and assuming you'r using Premiere (if you use another program try to find out how it is done), go to project settings and check that your video FILE, your PROJECT and your EXPORT settings all have the same field order. You must be shure of this before you look for other reasons. It's those tiny bity details that can drive you crazy... Good luck and keep us posted. Arnaldo

July 11th, 2003, 01:29 PM	#24
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Nope because I ran the same clip @ 6000 and it played exactly the same as 8000. Though I'll take heed in the future setting such a high bitrate @ CBR. I don't want to make a DVD that a clients old DVD player can't handle.

July 11th, 2003, 07:11 PM	#25
Roy Roberts New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London Posts: 20	HI. using Dvdit. when I have problems that are similar. I use VBR and make the dvd to disk folder. then I burn the dvd as data. ie the audio and video folders. Just a shot in the dark really. By the way, sometimes DVDit gives false previews but they go when the DvD is made.

July 12th, 2003, 09:23 AM	#26
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	DVDit gives false previews? Not sure what you mean. The MPG2 looks fine when played on the pc, it only shows it while played back on the television. I just got my copy of Vegas+DVD so mabye I'll try rendering and authoring it with this- though I'm a fish out of water with DVD Architec....I'll have to learn swiftly. In the meantime there are a few other things I can try beings the "adaptive interlace" filter seemed to improve the ghosting/flickering of the pans dramatically. I'm also going to try and burn a few using "none" as the field order just to see what happens.

July 12th, 2003, 10:08 AM	#27
Roy Roberts New Boot Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London Posts: 20	when I say false previews, what I should have said is that sometimes the sound and video are out of sync in DVDit preview mode. sorry. Look, if you want to email me about 10 or 20 secs of your video I will try it on my system for you and burn a DVD and let you know the results....

July 12th, 2003, 03:54 PM	#28
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	The problem is undoubtedly related to the field order, but it might not be at the MPEG encoding end. I assume you captured originally on DV and then imported. Make sure lower field order is selected then. What video software are you using? With Vegas, I've found that you must specify blend fields as the deinterlacing method all the time, even for interlaced footage, so make sure that's set. Then when you encode to MPEG2, make sure the field orders once again match. Worse comes to worst, you can always make the video progressive by deinterlacing.

July 12th, 2003, 04:22 PM	#29
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Roy I might actually take you up on that offer- though keep in mind it'll be NTSC DV AVI, not PAL. Let me know if it's still ok and I'll send it to you Sunday night when I get home (writing on here from my gf's computer). Peter, I haven't used Vegas for capturing or extensive editing yet I just got the retail version a day or so ago. The project I'm having problems with was capture via Premiere thru my Pinnacle DV500 card- and I did double check to make sure lower fields first was set throughout my workflow....which it was.

July 12th, 2003, 04:54 PM	#30
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Ok, when you export in premier, check the settings carefully, specifically keyframe and rendering. Make sure the fields are set to lower fields first there as well if you haven't already. Also under Special, make sure Deinterlace is off. This is when you select File \| Export Movie and click on settings next to the file type. You might also right clip on your clips, click advanced, and click Interpret Footage to make sure everything there is kosher as well. That's about all I can think of right now.