by Art Adams: Why Make Video Look Like Film? An Inside Look… at DVinfo.net

Chris Hurd · March 2nd, 2014, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Adams

When Rubber Monkey Software of New Zealand asked me to review their filmConvert software, it occurred to me that this was an opportunity to ask some deeper questions about film stock emulation products that never seem to get asked: not just “how,” but “why?” Rubber Monkey software is based in New Zealand. Lance Lones, one of their principals who has a strong background in visual effects as well as color technology, took a lot of time to answer my emailed questions in great detail, for which I am truly thankful. My questions are in bold, followed by Lance’s responses.

Read the full article at Why Make Video Look Like Film? An Inside Look… at DV Info Net

Rainer Listing · March 2nd, 2014, 03:37 PM

One more time. Film is projected: frame flashes on screen for 1/96 second. Followed by 1/96 second black. Followed by same frame for 1/96 second. followed by 1/96 second black. Followed by next frame. Somehow this sequence may tie in with some people's brain wave frequency to produce a different experience to video screen refresh. No amount of futzing around with contrast, saturation, gamma, grain, color balance, DR and still showing it as video is going to duplicate this experience. But everyone's entitled to try make a buck somehow.

Tim Polster · March 2nd, 2014, 04:03 PM

I think the software could be based upon a "frame" of the film and its look. Therefore no motion.

Regarding the black frames, why is there not a 96p framerate with alternating black frames to simulate this projection? 24fps video seems very slow compared to anything happening at 1/96th. The 1/96th number would suggest 48p as the framerate. Very complex stuff.

Adam Gold · March 2nd, 2014, 04:51 PM

Neither are the frame rate for film. Both a 1/48th and a 1/96th frame rate would change the cadence and neither would look at all like film.

Film is 24 fps. Film shot at 96fps, or even 48fps (see Showscan) looks like Video.

However, if you mean shooting at 24p and finding a way to output at 96p, each picture twice with alternating black frames as Rainier describes above, you may be on to something. If you could find a display device and distribution medium to handle it accurately.

But of course frame rate isn't the only thing that makes film look like film, and it isn't even the most important thing.

Fran Guidry · March 3rd, 2014, 03:33 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Shutter

Fran

Tim Polster · March 3rd, 2014, 09:59 AM

Thanks for the clarification. I don't know what I was typing with 48fps and missing the point about the frame being displayed for 2 cycles. I had a look at After effects just to try and simulate this type of projection but it will not allow projects above 60p.

The refresh rates would be off at 96p but maybe through some conforming it could be distilled back down to a deliverable framerate. No luck but I think it would be an interesting look for video. I experimented with 24p video on a 60p timeline with alternating black frames and while the flicker was too much, if I lowered the opacity of the black frames to ~2% it started to have a nicer feel. At 96fps it would be better.

March 2nd, 2014, 03:37 PM	#2
Rainer Listing Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Nowra, Australia Posts: 440	Re: Why Make Video Look Like Film? An Inside Look… One more time. Film is projected: frame flashes on screen for 1/96 second. Followed by 1/96 second black. Followed by same frame for 1/96 second. followed by 1/96 second black. Followed by next frame. Somehow this sequence may tie in with some people's brain wave frequency to produce a different experience to video screen refresh. No amount of futzing around with contrast, saturation, gamma, grain, color balance, DR and still showing it as video is going to duplicate this experience. But everyone's entitled to try make a buck somehow.

March 2nd, 2014, 04:03 PM	#3
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Why Make Video Look Like Film? An Inside Look… I think the software could be based upon a "frame" of the film and its look. Therefore no motion. Regarding the black frames, why is there not a 96p framerate with alternating black frames to simulate this projection? 24fps video seems very slow compared to anything happening at 1/96th. The 1/96th number would suggest 48p as the framerate. Very complex stuff.

March 2nd, 2014, 04:51 PM	#4
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Re: Why Make Video Look Like Film? An Inside Look… Neither are the frame rate for film. Both a 1/48th and a 1/96th frame rate would change the cadence and neither would look at all like film. Film is 24 fps. Film shot at 96fps, or even 48fps (see Showscan) looks like Video. However, if you mean shooting at 24p and finding a way to output at 96p, each picture twice with alternating black frames as Rainier describes above, you may be on to something. If you could find a display device and distribution medium to handle it accurately. But of course frame rate isn't the only thing that makes film look like film, and it isn't even the most important thing. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

March 3rd, 2014, 03:33 AM	#5
Fran Guidry Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Walnut Creek, CA, USA Posts: 69	Re: Why Make Video Look Like Film? An Inside Look… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Shutter Fran __________________ Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com Homebrewed Music Blog

March 3rd, 2014, 09:59 AM	#6
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Why Make Video Look Like Film? An Inside Look… Thanks for the clarification. I don't know what I was typing with 48fps and missing the point about the frame being displayed for 2 cycles. I had a look at After effects just to try and simulate this type of projection but it will not allow projects above 60p. The refresh rates would be off at 96p but maybe through some conforming it could be distilled back down to a deliverable framerate. No luck but I think it would be an interesting look for video. I experimented with 24p video on a 60p timeline with alternating black frames and while the flicker was too much, if I lowered the opacity of the black frames to ~2% it started to have a nicer feel. At 96fps it would be better.