for sale ads

Chris Hurd · February 23rd, 2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

How about just putting restrictions on sellers?

Just the sellers wasn't enough. I was getting flooded with new registrations that were just looking to reply to the classifieds. The other day someone sent me an email, complaining about the wait in the moderation que (yeah it can be a long one, sorry about that), his message was, "can you hurry up and let me post, I want to bid on an item." No kidding. The good reputation our Classifieds have as an alternative to Ebay is definitely reassuring, but the problem is the more popular it becomes, the more easily damaged it is by a growing influx of scammers. The flip side of this is, I'm also grateful for the new folks who came in looking at the classified ads and decided to stay when they discovered the rest of the board. That's very cool and very much appreciated -- glad to have you guys with us now. However, I'd really rather not have that be a primary avenue of new member registrations. Nothing at all against the folks who found us that way. It's just that this particular process is less than ideal, and most importantly the new member retention factor was simply too low to make it worthwhile. I hate to admit that, but it's the truth.

Mike Settle · February 23rd, 2006, 02:59 PM

I understand that Chris. I was just making the point about my "posting habits". I think this forum is awesome. I have already passed it on to other people I know in my area. I wish I had discoved it earlier. Anyway, I'm getting pulled way out my internet comfort zone.....LOL I have now posted more on this site than some I have been reading for years. I will "obviously" play by whatever rules are implemented, but I wonder if I would have spent enough time on the site to discover how much info is here if I would not have found the "trading post" I was looking for when I stumbled in. In fact, I wonder how many members discovered the site looking for used equipment? I don't know the answer of course. But it would be interesting to know.

Thanks
Mike

Chris Hurd · February 23rd, 2006, 03:08 PM

Thanks Mike and I agree that would be nice to know. Believe it or not, the higher-level moderators and myself would actually prefer it if this site was just "the best kept secret on the web." We're not looking for a huge number of members, topics, or posts... all we're interested in are the best people and the best discussions. There's very little marketing invloved, practically none in fact, and it's almost too big as it is now. In fact we're working on keeping the total membership at 20,000 by clearing out old accounts as new ones come in. Even with nearly half a million posts this is still considered a small community, and that's just fine with us. Thanks again for your input,

Mike Settle · February 23rd, 2006, 03:25 PM

Sorry Chris. You all have done way to good of a job and provided to much valuable information to remain the best kept secret on the web. . .LOL Thanks again for a great site. NM

Dino Santoro · February 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Settle

Sorry Chris. You all have done way to good of a job and provided to much valuable information to remain the best kept secret on the web. . .LOL Thanks again for a great site. NM

I agree. This site is amazing!

Mark Slade · February 23rd, 2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Just the sellers wasn't enough. I was getting flooded with new registrations that were just looking to reply to the classifieds.

Why can't the seller post some type of contact info? Then the potential buyer won't need to reply?
BTW....how much time is required to have been a member? I do a lot more reading than posting....but I sure miss perusing the classifieds....
Mark

Chris Hurd · February 23rd, 2006, 11:15 PM

Most sellers do list an email address right in the post. And you don't have long to wait Mark!

Mark Slade · February 23rd, 2006, 11:33 PM

Thanks Chris..... Unfortunately I have more to learn from here than to give. And I have learned a lot just from reading the last few months. Keep up the good work. It is appreciated!!
Mark

Bill Schoaf · February 24th, 2006, 12:09 AM

I bought a lot of lighting for our studio right here off this site. I was lucky of course that the seller (Patrick Gault) was in a Michigan and me in Chicago and it was HIM that actually offered to meet me half-way (Indiana). Not only was everything as he described but he threw in a couple extras just for the heck of it. I never came here to buy anything, came becasue of the endless learning experience but it turned out to be a nice bonus.

I for one understand why Chris did what he did and I'll wait till my time comes up. If you came here to only buy something, one your probably in the wrong place and two, your wasting a great community's endless knowledge.

Hey, but what hell do I know? ;)

Robert Musiello · February 24th, 2006, 04:55 AM

Why don't you just check out your members before joining... I joined DWF which is a phtographers forum.. I was contacted by the founder questioned... and allowed on..
I support the forum members by buying equiptment from them whenever possible.. in fact when I sell equiptment I give a better price to members than I can get on ebay... You should do a little checking... Ask new members if they are members of other forum.. contact the other forums and see "how they are viwed... ect.. before you let them in...
but as far as removing the forsale section because some people were not carefull ..to me is ridiclious.. My M-F day job is a Police Sergeant in NY...
you can not stop people that do theses types of crimes as a "job"... thy will always figure a way around...I think that you should check out new members better... and post some type of liability wavier that the forum is not responsible... if not all you are doing is punishing the whole for some of the few...I have been doing video/ photography as a weekend warrior for 20+ years and run two stores with my four boys... every year I buy and sell equiptment... and I feel out my sellers and buyers myself with phone calls ect... tell your members to buy with safer practices... I would love to know the details of how these members were scammed.. I'll bet it could have been avoided with some common sense...I've caught two scammers on ebay.. just by asking for contact information to my sellers.. and checking them out... usually a scamster does not have the "full" normal contact info...
name..
address...
phone..
business...
go online and check if the phone matches the address... its free to check...
ect...
simple methods...
tell the members to do thier homework...
feel free to contact me.. a new member to this forum.. but not a new member in the video world.. in fact if any of you remember Bob Lebar the animator... I was his partner that brought his animations to the computer platform on a amiga about 20years ago..

Pete Bauer · February 24th, 2006, 06:29 AM

Hi Robert and welcome to Dvinfo. The Personal Classifieds forum isn't being removed. Perhaps Chris will have additional thoughts but my own two cents: Classifieds is a value-added service and not the main purpose of this site. DVinfo has no obligation to provide the Classified services to all comers. The ads are now limited to well-established members.

While you're undeniably correct that the scammers will always be out there, it isn't our goal to put them out of business (we leave that to you peace officers) but rather to secure our "DVinfo home" from them with the resources we have. I know Chris already spends a LOT of his time reviewing new member requests, and would probably agree that it isn't practical to do a general background check on everyone who wants to join DVinfo. I took a quick look at DWF and it is a very different animal: a $99/year pay site with 7520 registered members and only six forums to moderate. It's a lot easier to put manpower into background checks when your revenues are somewhere above $750,000/year for a pay site than it is when you run a free site with dozens of forums and over 20,000 members.

Sorry we can't please every new member whose purpose is to buy and sell stuff, but that's not why DVinfo has over 20,000 members.

Tim Gray · February 24th, 2006, 12:31 PM

I'm sure we will all ultimately support your choice - its a great site with a wealth of information.

Mark Bournes · February 24th, 2006, 01:25 PM

Chris, 1st of all the forum is great. I, like a lot of others stumbled across this site last november. I have been in television for 16 years and this is by far one of the best sources of "free" information. I have just started my own production company this year and this site is helpful in many ways including the classifieds. It's nice to know you can buy good used equipment from trusted members. Hopefully I will have enough posts and time in soon
enough to return to the classifieds as well. In the mean time I will continue to post and help others when I can. Thanks,

Mark Bournes
Shark Video Productions

Andrew Todd · February 24th, 2006, 01:39 PM

heres my opinon.. The classified section is one of my favs seeing that i have bought and sold cameras and lenses and am always on the hunt for a deal.. that along with the awesome array of info i have found on this site is the reason i can sit here for hours on end like a zombie.

heres my suggestion:

I think that EVERYONE should have access to the forum to VIEW the posts. They can reply in email to the seller and the seller can use his/her own discretion at that point. Posting items for sale could be restricted to long standing known members on the site that have a track record of not being a scammer from Germany who has a preference of western union as a payment method.. As always exceptions could be made by forwarding any requests to chris and he could have the final say and use his discretion.

i think that could work better.. but thats just me .. and im not the kennelmaster!!!
(sorry for anyone who's not a scammer from germany who might be insulted by my biased opinion :) .. ive just dealt with a few who were.)

Ryan Reyes · February 24th, 2006, 02:15 PM

Just wanted to add my 2 cents Canadian. I'm a member of several different forums such as this one and one of the other forums I frequent has some good buy/sell rules that help avoid fraud. All items posted for sale must be accompanied by actual pictures. All pictures must include a piece of paper with the date and your forum username written on it. Although this doesn't guarantee against fake sellers 100%, it definitely helps.

February 23rd, 2006, 03:08 PM	#33
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Thanks Mike and I agree that would be nice to know. Believe it or not, the higher-level moderators and myself would actually prefer it if this site was just "the best kept secret on the web." We're not looking for a huge number of members, topics, or posts... all we're interested in are the best people and the best discussions. There's very little marketing invloved, practically none in fact, and it's almost too big as it is now. In fact we're working on keeping the total membership at 20,000 by clearing out old accounts as new ones come in. Even with nearly half a million posts this is still considered a small community, and that's just fine with us. Thanks again for your input, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 23rd, 2006, 11:15 PM	#37
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Most sellers do list an email address right in the post. And you don't have long to wait Mark! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 24th, 2006, 06:29 AM	#41
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Hi Robert and welcome to Dvinfo. The Personal Classifieds forum isn't being removed. Perhaps Chris will have additional thoughts but my own two cents: Classifieds is a value-added service and not the main purpose of this site. DVinfo has no obligation to provide the Classified services to all comers. The ads are now limited to well-established members. While you're undeniably correct that the scammers will always be out there, it isn't our goal to put them out of business (we leave that to you peace officers) but rather to secure our "DVinfo home" from them with the resources we have. I know Chris already spends a LOT of his time reviewing new member requests, and would probably agree that it isn't practical to do a general background check on everyone who wants to join DVinfo. I took a quick look at DWF and it is a very different animal: a $99/year pay site with 7520 registered members and only six forums to moderate. It's a lot easier to put manpower into background checks when your revenues are somewhere above $750,000/year for a pay site than it is when you run a free site with dozens of forums and over 20,000 members. Sorry we can't please every new member whose purpose is to buy and sell stuff, but that's not why DVinfo has over 20,000 members. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

February 24th, 2006, 01:39 PM	#44
Andrew Todd Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Saint John, CANADA Posts: 633	heres my opinon.. The classified section is one of my favs seeing that i have bought and sold cameras and lenses and am always on the hunt for a deal.. that along with the awesome array of info i have found on this site is the reason i can sit here for hours on end like a zombie. heres my suggestion: I think that EVERYONE should have access to the forum to VIEW the posts. They can reply in email to the seller and the seller can use his/her own discretion at that point. Posting items for sale could be restricted to long standing known members on the site that have a track record of not being a scammer from Germany who has a preference of western union as a payment method.. As always exceptions could be made by forwarding any requests to chris and he could have the final say and use his discretion. i think that could work better.. but thats just me .. and im not the kennelmaster!!! (sorry for anyone who's not a scammer from germany who might be insulted by my biased opinion :) .. ive just dealt with a few who were.) __________________ video : xl2 / letus35xl / bogen 503 photo- canon 1dmkII - bronica etrsi

February 23rd, 2006, 02:59 PM	#32
Mike Settle New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belpre, OH Posts: 7	I understand that Chris. I was just making the point about my "posting habits". I think this forum is awesome. I have already passed it on to other people I know in my area. I wish I had discoved it earlier. Anyway, I'm getting pulled way out my internet comfort zone.....LOL I have now posted more on this site than some I have been reading for years. I will "obviously" play by whatever rules are implemented, but I wonder if I would have spent enough time on the site to discover how much info is here if I would not have found the "trading post" I was looking for when I stumbled in. In fact, I wonder how many members discovered the site looking for used equipment? I don't know the answer of course. But it would be interesting to know. Thanks Mike

February 23rd, 2006, 03:25 PM	#34
Mike Settle New Boot Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belpre, OH Posts: 7	Sorry Chris. You all have done way to good of a job and provided to much valuable information to remain the best kept secret on the web. . .LOL Thanks again for a great site. NM

February 23rd, 2006, 11:33 PM	#38
Mark Slade Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 121	Thanks Chris..... Unfortunately I have more to learn from here than to give. And I have learned a lot just from reading the last few months. Keep up the good work. It is appreciated!! Mark

February 24th, 2006, 12:09 AM	#39
Bill Schoaf Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 49	I bought a lot of lighting for our studio right here off this site. I was lucky of course that the seller (Patrick Gault) was in a Michigan and me in Chicago and it was HIM that actually offered to meet me half-way (Indiana). Not only was everything as he described but he threw in a couple extras just for the heck of it. I never came here to buy anything, came becasue of the endless learning experience but it turned out to be a nice bonus. I for one understand why Chris did what he did and I'll wait till my time comes up. If you came here to only buy something, one your probably in the wrong place and two, your wasting a great community's endless knowledge. Hey, but what hell do I know? ;)

February 24th, 2006, 04:55 AM	#40
Robert Musiello Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 143	Why don't you just check out your members before joining... I joined DWF which is a phtographers forum.. I was contacted by the founder questioned... and allowed on.. I support the forum members by buying equiptment from them whenever possible.. in fact when I sell equiptment I give a better price to members than I can get on ebay... You should do a little checking... Ask new members if they are members of other forum.. contact the other forums and see "how they are viwed... ect.. before you let them in... but as far as removing the forsale section because some people were not carefull ..to me is ridiclious.. My M-F day job is a Police Sergeant in NY... you can not stop people that do theses types of crimes as a "job"... thy will always figure a way around...I think that you should check out new members better... and post some type of liability wavier that the forum is not responsible... if not all you are doing is punishing the whole for some of the few...I have been doing video/ photography as a weekend warrior for 20+ years and run two stores with my four boys... every year I buy and sell equiptment... and I feel out my sellers and buyers myself with phone calls ect... tell your members to buy with safer practices... I would love to know the details of how these members were scammed.. I'll bet it could have been avoided with some common sense...I've caught two scammers on ebay.. just by asking for contact information to my sellers.. and checking them out... usually a scamster does not have the "full" normal contact info... name.. address... phone.. business... go online and check if the phone matches the address... its free to check... ect... simple methods... tell the members to do thier homework... feel free to contact me.. a new member to this forum.. but not a new member in the video world.. in fact if any of you remember Bob Lebar the animator... I was his partner that brought his animations to the computer platform on a amiga about 20years ago..

February 24th, 2006, 12:31 PM	#42
Tim Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Media, PA Posts: 144	I'm sure we will all ultimately support your choice - its a great site with a wealth of information.

February 24th, 2006, 01:25 PM	#43
Mark Bournes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 565	Chris, 1st of all the forum is great. I, like a lot of others stumbled across this site last november. I have been in television for 16 years and this is by far one of the best sources of "free" information. I have just started my own production company this year and this site is helpful in many ways including the classifieds. It's nice to know you can buy good used equipment from trusted members. Hopefully I will have enough posts and time in soon enough to return to the classifieds as well. In the mean time I will continue to post and help others when I can. Thanks, Mark Bournes Shark Video Productions

February 24th, 2006, 02:15 PM	#45
Ryan Reyes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 26	Just wanted to add my 2 cents Canadian. I'm a member of several different forums such as this one and one of the other forums I frequent has some good buy/sell rules that help avoid fraud. All items posted for sale must be accompanied by actual pictures. All pictures must include a piece of paper with the date and your forum username written on it. Although this doesn't guarantee against fake sellers 100%, it definitely helps.