Local Gang Wars at DVinfo.net

Bryon Akerman · February 3rd, 2006, 09:50 AM

Hey All,

I must admit that this site gets frustrating sometimes. It seems like every time I read a post on one camera or another, It will include fifteen posts of why that particular camera is a piece of junk. Well, the low light performance of that camera isnt any good. Or, the audio on this camera is worse than on my camera.

It's hard to find out "useful" information on these posts, when it seems like the majority of them turn into little gang wars fighting for territory on the best camera, whether that be SD or HD.

Could it be (now, just go with me here) that they all have points about them that are better than others? Could it be that if you don't like the XL-H1, then you don't have to buy it AND you don't have to complain about the price? I don't ever remember Canon saying it's camera was for everyone. The same goes for all of the other cameras, too.

Personally, I can tell my stories and shoot my films with almost any camera, because I remember what it was like shooting on VHS and (Ugh) VHS-C.

Find the camera that works for you, buy it, and go out and tell some incredible stories! And when you come on here, leave the bickering at home. Who cares if somone prefers a another camera to yours?

It's the same as people arguing over which auto brand is better, Ford or Chevy. It's a preference thing.

I guess what I'm saying is that when I read a title to a thread and I get to the end of the thread, I would like the lasts posts to have to do with the title and not with Why I won't buy that camera. know what I mean??

You guys all rock!! Keep telling the stories!

Bryon <>< Oh, and Chevy's ARE FAR SUPERIOR to Fords. ;-)

Chris Hurd · February 3rd, 2006, 10:28 AM

Hi Bryon,

As the owner of this site, this situation is pretty much my fault and entirely my own responsibility. When I started this thing back in September 2001, it was my intention to get away from all those gang wars so commonly found elsewhere on various digital video sites. For the first couple of years, the difference that DV Info Net had to offer was the primary draw which brought in some high-class folks who were attracted to the way this place worked.

As a direct result of our previous high signal / low noise reputation, our popularity has grown so much and the influx of new members has multiplied so much that it's become a challenge to retain the high quality of discussions which we used to enjoy. The primary issue at stake is that a growing percentage of newer members stumble in and treat this place like a "typical internet message board," when it's supposed to be anything but that. For me the single most annoying problem is the type of internet surfer who comes in and says "I really love this site" and proceeds to trash it by engaging in just the kind of useless junk that we've been trying so hard to get away from.

Just recently we had to endure a horrible episode of some of the worst flaming I've ever seen in a long time, and it was personally pretty frustrating for me because I was out of town at a trade show when it happened and therefore unable to clean it up as fast as I normally would have. You might say that this particular instance was my final wake-up call, the last round of the snooze button which has finally brought me out of the slumber to realize who badly downhill we've being going recently.

The challenge is, how to manage rapidly growing popularity. Last month (Jan. 2006) saw our heaviest traffic ever, nearly 15 million hits (14943799) from several hundred thousand unique visitors. That's three times the volume of our heaviest month from 2003 and the current year has only just begun. If anything, I'm hoping our traffic will actually subside to a degree because unlike most other web destinations, I'm more interested in quality over quantity and besides, some of those hits are coming from an element that I would rather not have hanging around here. I'd prefer for DV Info Net to be smaller, more exclusive and better by virtue of a higher caliber of membership. I don't want the highest members count, just the best people. I don't want the highest post count, just the best discussions.

The steps I'm taking to rectify this situation are to firmly urge certain undesirables who excel in dragging us down to seek new digs elsewhere on the web, and to take their fan bases with them. Second, by adding some terrific folks to our pool of forum moderators. And third, by making it a little tougher to get in the front door by tightening up some of the criteria on new member registrations.

That's how we're going make the local gang wars go away so we can get back to our roots. Hope this helps,

Bryon Akerman · February 3rd, 2006, 10:35 AM

Hey Chris, Thanks for the response. I put no blame on you at all for this. I realize that all of the wonderful people I have met on here and all of the great advice and answers that I have found would be nonexistent if it were not for the work you put into making this site. This site is STILL a godsend to people like me, who know enough to get into trouble, and can come on here and find answers, then go back out into the world and take credit for those answers. ;-) I appreciate all the work you've done and are continuing to do to make this such a great site.

So, "Thanks."

Bryon <><

Zack Birlew · February 3rd, 2006, 11:01 AM

Hey, Chris, as far as the changes go, I was wondering. Does the Report Bad Post button report to just you or does it go to all the moderators until said post is investigated and/or deleted?

Robert Mann Z. · February 3rd, 2006, 11:11 AM

chris this is so your fault...i was so pissed reading the latest crop of bs on this site, i almost sent you a written letter, yes a written letter asking for my money back... i can't believe you are out at trade shows testing the latest and greatest, hobnobbing and networking while i sit in my office between edits have to peak at dv info with one eye closed just because i might see a thread i hate...

this is such bs can you please get back to work, i mean what are we paying you for....

:) see you at nab 2006

Chris Hurd · February 3rd, 2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Does the Report Bad Post button report to just you

Jack, it goes to me plus the mods for that forum. It works kind of like Child Protective Services. We look at all reports, but only some of them are actionable (actionable meaning it needs editing, removing, relocating etc). Although we do look at everything, we may or may not always reply to the reporting party. If something is actionable, the reporting party is seldom privileged to be in on what that is. Hope that helps,

Chris Hurd · February 3rd, 2006, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Mann Z.

:) see you at nab 2006

Hah. I got a kick out of that Robert. Looking forward to seeing you again,

Boyd Ostroff · February 3rd, 2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Felis

Does the Report Bad Post button report to just you or does it go to all the moderators

Also remember, if you want to direct some comments to a specific moderator you can just click on their name and use the "send e-mail" link.

Mike Teutsch · February 3rd, 2006, 11:59 AM

Great post to Bryon Chris, and keep up the good work!

Mike

Joe Carney · February 3rd, 2006, 09:33 PM

Gee Chris, I didn't think the Eunich post was that bad. I'll try to be more careful.

Duane Smith · February 4th, 2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I don't want the highest members count, just the best people. I don't want the highest post count, just the best discussions.

I knew there was a reason I loved this place so much; that is *exactly* the type of mindset I have about most everything in my life.

Heck I'd offer to volunteer some kind of help myself, just because I like this place so much, but I'm so freakin' busy tying to earn a living that I don't have much time for anything else. :(

Good luck, and keep heading in the direction you're going!

Peter Ferling · February 4th, 2006, 09:18 PM

It's foolish to believe that any site is emmune, and that certain human traits often cloud judgement before the submit button is clicked. I'm first to admit such guilt, and have wound up in a few pi**ing matches without merit.

Sometimes you have to read into what the poster is saying and judge whether or not there is a qualified meaning or experience.

What makes this site unique is that the moderators do just that: "moderate", and judging by the shear volume of posts that have to be weeded out, it seems to be a thankless job.

Well, let me say thank you, and if I can help by lending a some of my time, let me know. The information and advice I get on this site has saved me just as many hours of frustration.

Pete

Jack Barker · February 25th, 2006, 02:25 PM

Jeez, what a sad state of affairs. I had no idea it had come to this - and the Classifieds getting banged up as well. I figure that more visitors means more help needed.

Chris, if you need another pair of helping hands, I'm at my computer 10-12 hours a day as it is (I know - get a life, right?), so count me in.

Jack

Chris Hurd · February 26th, 2006, 01:15 AM

This is what we get for having such a rapid growth rate, Jack. It's pretty hard to avoid. Thanks for the offer, I might take you up on it!

Travis Cossel · March 3rd, 2006, 02:09 AM

I just want to thank you, Chris, with every ounce of sincerity possible, for founding this wonderful forum and for all the hard work you have put into it and will be putting into it in the future. This is truly one of the best 'free entry' forums on the internet for any category. I love it.

Also, I'm on my computer a lot as well and would be willing to help you out with moderating if you need it.

February 3rd, 2006, 09:50 AM	#1
Bryon Akerman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 175	Local Gang Wars Hey All, I must admit that this site gets frustrating sometimes. It seems like every time I read a post on one camera or another, It will include fifteen posts of why that particular camera is a piece of junk. Well, the low light performance of that camera isnt any good. Or, the audio on this camera is worse than on my camera. It's hard to find out "useful" information on these posts, when it seems like the majority of them turn into little gang wars fighting for territory on the best camera, whether that be SD or HD. Could it be (now, just go with me here) that they all have points about them that are better than others? Could it be that if you don't like the XL-H1, then you don't have to buy it AND you don't have to complain about the price? I don't ever remember Canon saying it's camera was for everyone. The same goes for all of the other cameras, too. Personally, I can tell my stories and shoot my films with almost any camera, because I remember what it was like shooting on VHS and (Ugh) VHS-C. Find the camera that works for you, buy it, and go out and tell some incredible stories! And when you come on here, leave the bickering at home. Who cares if somone prefers a another camera to yours? It's the same as people arguing over which auto brand is better, Ford or Chevy. It's a preference thing. I guess what I'm saying is that when I read a title to a thread and I get to the end of the thread, I would like the lasts posts to have to do with the title and not with Why I won't buy that camera. know what I mean?? You guys all rock!! Keep telling the stories! Bryon <>< Oh, and Chevy's ARE FAR SUPERIOR to Fords. ;-) __________________ Commandment #11- "Thou shalt Render as thou goest." "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Prov. 1:7)

February 3rd, 2006, 10:28 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hi Bryon, As the owner of this site, this situation is pretty much my fault and entirely my own responsibility. When I started this thing back in September 2001, it was my intention to get away from all those gang wars so commonly found elsewhere on various digital video sites. For the first couple of years, the difference that DV Info Net had to offer was the primary draw which brought in some high-class folks who were attracted to the way this place worked. As a direct result of our previous high signal / low noise reputation, our popularity has grown so much and the influx of new members has multiplied so much that it's become a challenge to retain the high quality of discussions which we used to enjoy. The primary issue at stake is that a growing percentage of newer members stumble in and treat this place like a "typical internet message board," when it's supposed to be anything but that. For me the single most annoying problem is the type of internet surfer who comes in and says "I really love this site" and proceeds to trash it by engaging in just the kind of useless junk that we've been trying so hard to get away from. Just recently we had to endure a horrible episode of some of the worst flaming I've ever seen in a long time, and it was personally pretty frustrating for me because I was out of town at a trade show when it happened and therefore unable to clean it up as fast as I normally would have. You might say that this particular instance was my final wake-up call, the last round of the snooze button which has finally brought me out of the slumber to realize who badly downhill we've being going recently. The challenge is, how to manage rapidly growing popularity. Last month (Jan. 2006) saw our heaviest traffic ever, nearly 15 million hits (14943799) from several hundred thousand unique visitors. That's three times the volume of our heaviest month from 2003 and the current year has only just begun. If anything, I'm hoping our traffic will actually subside to a degree because unlike most other web destinations, I'm more interested in quality over quantity and besides, some of those hits are coming from an element that I would rather not have hanging around here. I'd prefer for DV Info Net to be smaller, more exclusive and better by virtue of a higher caliber of membership. I don't want the highest members count, just the best people. I don't want the highest post count, just the best discussions. The steps I'm taking to rectify this situation are to firmly urge certain undesirables who excel in dragging us down to seek new digs elsewhere on the web, and to take their fan bases with them. Second, by adding some terrific folks to our pool of forum moderators. And third, by making it a little tougher to get in the front door by tightening up some of the criteria on new member registrations. That's how we're going make the local gang wars go away so we can get back to our roots. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 3rd, 2006, 10:35 AM	#3
Bryon Akerman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 175	Thanks Hey Chris, Thanks for the response. I put no blame on you at all for this. I realize that all of the wonderful people I have met on here and all of the great advice and answers that I have found would be nonexistent if it were not for the work you put into making this site. This site is STILL a godsend to people like me, who know enough to get into trouble, and can come on here and find answers, then go back out into the world and take credit for those answers. ;-) I appreciate all the work you've done and are continuing to do to make this such a great site. So, "Thanks." Bryon <>< __________________ Commandment #11- "Thou shalt Render as thou goest." "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Prov. 1:7)

February 3rd, 2006, 11:01 AM	#4
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Hey, Chris, as far as the changes go, I was wondering. Does the Report Bad Post button report to just you or does it go to all the moderators until said post is investigated and/or deleted? __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

February 3rd, 2006, 11:59 AM	#9
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Great Post Chris! Great post to Bryon Chris, and keep up the good work! Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

February 3rd, 2006, 11:11 AM	#5
Robert Mann Z. Skyonic New York Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 614	chris this is so your fault...i was so pissed reading the latest crop of bs on this site, i almost sent you a written letter, yes a written letter asking for my money back... i can't believe you are out at trade shows testing the latest and greatest, hobnobbing and networking while i sit in my office between edits have to peak at dv info with one eye closed just because i might see a thread i hate... this is such bs can you please get back to work, i mean what are we paying you for.... :) see you at nab 2006

February 3rd, 2006, 09:33 PM	#10
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Gee Chris, I didn't think the Eunich post was that bad. I'll try to be more careful.

February 4th, 2006, 09:18 PM	#12
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	It's foolish to believe that any site is emmune, and that certain human traits often cloud judgement before the submit button is clicked. I'm first to admit such guilt, and have wound up in a few pi**ing matches without merit. Sometimes you have to read into what the poster is saying and judge whether or not there is a qualified meaning or experience. What makes this site unique is that the moderators do just that: "moderate", and judging by the shear volume of posts that have to be weeded out, it seems to be a thankless job. Well, let me say thank you, and if I can help by lending a some of my time, let me know. The information and advice I get on this site has saved me just as many hours of frustration. Pete

February 25th, 2006, 02:25 PM	#13
Jack Barker Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 342	Jeez, what a sad state of affairs. I had no idea it had come to this - and the Classifieds getting banged up as well. I figure that more visitors means more help needed. Chris, if you need another pair of helping hands, I'm at my computer 10-12 hours a day as it is (I know - get a life, right?), so count me in. Jack

February 26th, 2006, 01:15 AM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	This is what we get for having such a rapid growth rate, Jack. It's pretty hard to avoid. Thanks for the offer, I might take you up on it! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 3rd, 2006, 02:09 AM	#15
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	I just want to thank you, Chris, with every ounce of sincerity possible, for founding this wonderful forum and for all the hard work you have put into it and will be putting into it in the future. This is truly one of the best 'free entry' forums on the internet for any category. I love it. Also, I'm on my computer a lot as well and would be willing to help you out with moderating if you need it. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com