Please don't change the forum

Ron Evans · September 19th, 2021, 05:58 AM

The EDIUS and DVXuser forums I am sure have the same engine. The change is a backwards step on both. For me they are both worse than they were before. Comments suggest they are better on phones and tablets. Not sure for me as I always use my PC to read and on that they are worse. The most annoying thing is that to "mark all read" one has to go to the main menu and scroll all the way to the bottom to find that button. At least DVXuser has now a new post button but EDIUS forum is still a mess. With the change please put both "new posts" and "mark read" at the top of the page. The Blackmagic forum still works fine I just hope they do not change that too.

Paul R Johnson · September 19th, 2021, 10:20 AM

Ron has hit it I think - forum software now has to be nice on phones and tablets first, so the portrait format improves things a little. I hate forums on phones though - it's so tricky to view. Google kept insisting my own website was mobile unfriendly and went on and on every visit about changing it, and the content works great on computers but I've had to include some mobile/tablet pages (that merely link to the real ones) just to get Google off my back. I like big and uncluttered.

Chris Hurd · September 19th, 2021, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

With the change please put both "new posts" and "mark read" at the top of the page.

That's just as important to me as well, so... I guarantee it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Not one is nicer to use after the upgrading because it’s full of features I hate in visual formats I hate and my old preferences for using forums get lost in the quest for modernity! I guess this is what kills more forums than the technical reasons.

What if I can show you the new version, ahead of time before it goes live, and get your feedback on it. Address whatever objections or issues that come up, get those rectified or at least explained, and try to tailor it to whatever the regular crowd here sees fit to endorse... so that there aren't any nasty surprises later.

This offer goes out to anyone DVi member who's interested, not just you two.

Allan Black · September 19th, 2021, 04:02 PM

Bit late to this thread. Say Chris, why not announce prizes for the best members ideas you use in the updated site eg; T-shirts with
DV Info printed on the front.

Cheers.

Andrew Smith · September 19th, 2021, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

That's just as important to me as well, so... I guarantee it.

What if I can show you the new version, ahead of time before it goes live, and get your feedback on it. Address whatever objections or issues that come up, get those rectified or at least explained, and try to tailor it to whatever the regular crowd here sees fit to endorse... so that there aren't any nasty surprises later.

This offer goes out to anyone DVi member who's interested, not just you two.

I'm in.

Also, I run my own webserver and it's still possible to set an older version of PHP to a single account. Google might complain but the software will still run beautifully despite that version of PHP no longer getting security updates. It's gotta be pretty dang secure by that stage anyway.

Andrew

Ron Evans · September 19th, 2021, 07:46 PM

Yes Chris I would be happy to pass comments if that would be useful.

Paul R Johnson · September 20th, 2021, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

That's just as important to me as well, so... I guarantee it.

What if I can show you the new version, ahead of time before it goes live, and get your feedback on it. Address whatever objections or issues that come up, get those rectified or at least explained, and try to tailor it to whatever the regular crowd here sees fit to endorse... so that there aren't any nasty surprises later.

This offer goes out to anyone DVi member who's interested, not just you two.

That would be nice and maybe other members would then flag up what they consider the really things the new one can do, that perhaps deserve a go, but I suspect we all use this one differently, so my unused feature is somebody else’s mainstay.

I spent ten minutes yesterday composing a helpful post to a guy who’d bought an elderly mixer on another forum. What the forum did was present it as a current post, it turned out he’d bought in new in 2004 and keywords had dragged it up. When I realised I couldn’t edit it or delete it, and I posted a short “I hate this……..” in frustration. The site owner got crazily defensive and we’ve fell out after 20 years. I suspect the advantages and improvements he got just caused the huge drop off in existing members and the number of new member help posts with no answers has risen. Very sad. It’s recording.org if you want to see how it looks and works.

Brian Drysdale · September 20th, 2021, 04:27 PM

I'm currently involved in testing the new forum for the NLE. The original software hadn't been updated since about 2010 and the change to different software, rather than just an update has involved a lot of work,

I don't know how the forum users will react to the new forum, since they use it in a rather complex way, with links to other threads and quite a few inserted images and videos. I imagine there will be complaints, if the old links don't work as they used to.

The forum mechanics seem to be an improvement on the old forum and the appearance appears clean and easy to read. However, it is different, so is open to the shock of the new.

Allan Black · September 20th, 2021, 06:13 PM

Since Chris started 20yrs ago, people now have many more choices with their time, more sites, podcasts, audio books, sophisticated on line games. At the Emmys the other day, streaming services won the majority of the awards and you pay for those.

But I think the biggest threat to this site is the improving cameras in smart phones, many people can’t afford a video camera plus a phone, so the phone is their choice and it’s more convenient. We should have a smart phone forum for video, apps, etc.

Cheers.

Andrew Smith · September 20th, 2021, 06:29 PM

Chris, will it be as 'simple' as performing an upgrade to the vBulletin software and tweaking the install?

This should enable you to maintain the rich history of internal links and other stuff you don't want breaking whilst giving the multiple device native display/support that the current software lacks.

Andrew

Brian Drysdale · September 21st, 2021, 05:48 AM

I don't think it's just about phones, other sites, even ones that were cinematography sites are lively with posts, including both film and video.

Allan Black · September 22nd, 2021, 06:54 PM

Must be the season, Red is up with a new look. https://www.reduser.net/ but then they make their own video cameras - that helps.

One or two new posts in 4 days, we need new features that attract members and viewers.

Cheers.

Brian Drysdale · September 23rd, 2021, 01:21 AM

Increasing the footfall is key to this.

The NLE forum has, for technical reasons, prevented new users from posting for the last few months on the old forum. When the new forum software is up and running it's hard to tell the impact this lull will be, certainly the traffic is currently down. So, it's unknown if the flood gates will open or if there will be a slow drip of new members.

The lesson from this is to keep your forum software up to date. otherwise you could be into a lot of pain.

Andrew Smith · September 23rd, 2021, 02:18 AM

The other issue is that after a few months people will have learnt new internet browsing habits at other sites and may not necessarily come back. Gotta have all bugs ironed out at launch time.

(I'm sure Chris will be on top of this.)

Andrew

Paul R Johnson · September 23rd, 2021, 03:41 AM

I think that's perhaps the thing Brian. Lots of little changes rather than cling on and then the shock is too much. Oddly - the forum I just left I've replaced with a similar one that has a much higher usage level, but has a wider spread of coverage. I never bothered with it too much because I thought many of it's interest areas were uninteresting - but now I've started, I'm quite comfy there.

I'm a member of the Guild of Television Camera Professionals - and their forum is simply horrible - it's as close as it can be to the old listserv bulletin boards, with topic threading and ancient processes. The membership were asked what they wanted and the needs were so wide - nothing suited everyone, so what we have is the worst suit all fit possible. Everyone still is required to put their name, location and contact phone number on every post, because the forum does not even have a click on info box where if interested, people could get that info. There is also a facebook group - and the users of both clearly do not read both! Everybody secretly knows how terrible it is, but because people pay for membership, everyone's views are valid!

September 19th, 2021, 05:58 AM	#31
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Please don't change the forum The EDIUS and DVXuser forums I am sure have the same engine. The change is a backwards step on both. For me they are both worse than they were before. Comments suggest they are better on phones and tablets. Not sure for me as I always use my PC to read and on that they are worse. The most annoying thing is that to "mark all read" one has to go to the main menu and scroll all the way to the bottom to find that button. At least DVXuser has now a new post button but EDIUS forum is still a mess. With the change please put both "new posts" and "mark read" at the top of the page. The Blackmagic forum still works fine I just hope they do not change that too.

September 19th, 2021, 10:20 AM	#32
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Please don't change the forum Ron has hit it I think - forum software now has to be nice on phones and tablets first, so the portrait format improves things a little. I hate forums on phones though - it's so tricky to view. Google kept insisting my own website was mobile unfriendly and went on and on every visit about changing it, and the content works great on computers but I've had to include some mobile/tablet pages (that merely link to the real ones) just to get Google off my back. I like big and uncluttered.

September 19th, 2021, 04:02 PM	#34
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,930	Re: Please don't change the forum Bit late to this thread. Say Chris, why not announce prizes for the best members ideas you use in the updated site eg; T-shirts with DV Info printed on the front. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

September 19th, 2021, 07:46 PM	#36
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Please don't change the forum Yes Chris I would be happy to pass comments if that would be useful.

September 20th, 2021, 04:27 PM	#38
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Please don't change the forum I'm currently involved in testing the new forum for the NLE. The original software hadn't been updated since about 2010 and the change to different software, rather than just an update has involved a lot of work, I don't know how the forum users will react to the new forum, since they use it in a rather complex way, with links to other threads and quite a few inserted images and videos. I imagine there will be complaints, if the old links don't work as they used to. The forum mechanics seem to be an improvement on the old forum and the appearance appears clean and easy to read. However, it is different, so is open to the shock of the new.

September 20th, 2021, 06:13 PM	#39
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,930	Re: Please don't change the forum Since Chris started 20yrs ago, people now have many more choices with their time, more sites, podcasts, audio books, sophisticated on line games. At the Emmys the other day, streaming services won the majority of the awards and you pay for those. But I think the biggest threat to this site is the improving cameras in smart phones, many people can’t afford a video camera plus a phone, so the phone is their choice and it’s more convenient. We should have a smart phone forum for video, apps, etc. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

September 20th, 2021, 06:29 PM	#40
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,065	Re: Please don't change the forum Chris, will it be as 'simple' as performing an upgrade to the vBulletin software and tweaking the install? This should enable you to maintain the rich history of internal links and other stuff you don't want breaking whilst giving the multiple device native display/support that the current software lacks. Andrew

September 21st, 2021, 05:48 AM	#41
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Please don't change the forum I don't think it's just about phones, other sites, even ones that were cinematography sites are lively with posts, including both film and video.

September 22nd, 2021, 06:54 PM	#42
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,930	Re: Please don't change the forum Must be the season, Red is up with a new look. https://www.reduser.net/ but then they make their own video cameras - that helps. One or two new posts in 4 days, we need new features that attract members and viewers. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

September 23rd, 2021, 01:21 AM	#43
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Please don't change the forum Increasing the footfall is key to this. The NLE forum has, for technical reasons, prevented new users from posting for the last few months on the old forum. When the new forum software is up and running it's hard to tell the impact this lull will be, certainly the traffic is currently down. So, it's unknown if the flood gates will open or if there will be a slow drip of new members. The lesson from this is to keep your forum software up to date. otherwise you could be into a lot of pain.

September 23rd, 2021, 02:18 AM	#44
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,065	Re: Please don't change the forum The other issue is that after a few months people will have learnt new internet browsing habits at other sites and may not necessarily come back. Gotta have all bugs ironed out at launch time. (I'm sure Chris will be on top of this.) Andrew

September 23rd, 2021, 03:41 AM	#45
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Please don't change the forum I think that's perhaps the thing Brian. Lots of little changes rather than cling on and then the shock is too much. Oddly - the forum I just left I've replaced with a similar one that has a much higher usage level, but has a wider spread of coverage. I never bothered with it too much because I thought many of it's interest areas were uninteresting - but now I've started, I'm quite comfy there. I'm a member of the Guild of Television Camera Professionals - and their forum is simply horrible - it's as close as it can be to the old listserv bulletin boards, with topic threading and ancient processes. The membership were asked what they wanted and the needs were so wide - nothing suited everyone, so what we have is the worst suit all fit possible. Everyone still is required to put their name, location and contact phone number on every post, because the forum does not even have a click on info box where if interested, people could get that info. There is also a facebook group - and the users of both clearly do not read both! Everybody secretly knows how terrible it is, but because people pay for membership, everyone's views are valid!