DV Challenge 5 JUDGING. You are the judges!

Dylan Couper · April 28th, 2006, 12:42 AM

I was hoping everyone would forget and I'd get to keep it. :)

Just got home from NAB a couple hours ago. Will sleep tonight and announce the winner tomorrow!

Sean McHenry · April 28th, 2006, 12:05 PM

I'll get my results in to you guys this weekend. Family emergencies...

Sean McHenry

Dylan Couper · April 28th, 2006, 01:38 PM

I have 20 votes in so far. I'll extend the voting deadline until SATURDAY NIGHT!!!

Sean, get them in!

Mugurel Dragusin · April 30th, 2006, 05:17 AM

Wondering WHICH Saturday night? :)

Michael Fossenkemper · April 30th, 2006, 05:50 AM

are you trying to say that i've been up for the last 8 hours hitting the refresh button for nothing?

Bradley L Marlow · April 30th, 2006, 06:12 AM

That is hilarious Michael!

Glad to know I'm not the only one afflicted with this condition.

Mugurel: I believe that was last night.

Best Wishes~
Bradley

Edward Slonaker · April 30th, 2006, 08:00 AM

I HOPE it was last night! The suspense is KILLING me!!

Dylan Couper · April 30th, 2006, 10:09 AM

Tallying the last votes right now. Don't go anywhere for 30 mins. :)

Philip Gioja · May 8th, 2006, 09:32 AM

I'm just wondering if it would be possible next time to have an outside (outside of the contest, maybe outside of the board) panel of several judges for the contest? Been thinking about it, and I think that would be a good idea if it'd be possible.

Also it'd be cool to see a little more structure to the judging criteria. I know it's always going to be somewhat subjective because we're dealing with art here, but it'd be nice to see it be more structured and have a better breakdown with what to shoot for, and be able to see on paper what we did wrong or right in comparison to the other films.

I think that it would help the contest be more accessible to people who are newer to the contest and don't have the same recognition as the regulars. It would also help with the issue of when to release the films and how that affects the voting process. I think it's kind of a logical step for the contest to continue to mature and grow (if that's the goal).

Just my two cents - keep them or spend them.

Dylan Couper · May 8th, 2006, 11:25 PM

Philip, the first 3 were judged by 5 hand picked DVinfo moderators.

I got one good idea from your suggestions though, and I get your vibe. For the next DVC, if we do the same type of judging, we could keep everyone's name off their films. Unless we go back to non-competitor judging.

On the other hand, I've toyed with total outsider judging as well.

Either way, for the next I will provide a stricter formula for scoring points. Although to be honest that kind of gets away from what I wanted the challenge to be about. I'm sure there is a happy medium.

Lorinda Norton · May 9th, 2006, 01:23 AM

I guess I don't get it. Of the top five this challenge, only one was what could be considered a "regular" with name recognition. That's pretty cool, and as Dick Mays said, showed that folks here don't judge based on stuff like that. And if anyone feels intimidated or left out of the fun, I'd be surprised, because the minute folks sign up they are a "regular" if they choose to get involved in that way. The easy-going nature of this challenge keeps it inviting, in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

to be honest that kind of gets away from what I wanted the challenge to be about.

Stay close to what you wanted the challenge to be about, Dylan. It works!

Michael Fossenkemper · May 9th, 2006, 08:14 AM

I didn't feel any sort of bad vibe or that I was an outsider. it was my first "short film", my first DVC and I cracked the top 5. hmmmm, that kind of makes it seem like the winner didn't have much competition...didn't intend that. anyway, I loved it. Plan on doing the next one. I learned a lot. Some had some time consuming special effects and others just had me outgunned and a couple I couldn't figure out how they did certain things. I shot on a DVC30 and edited the whole thing on a laptop. Even with all of that stacked up against me, I still did pretty good.

Philip Gioja · May 9th, 2006, 09:47 AM

I don't feel like it was a bad experience at all, and maybe the people that won are newer than I realized, so on that I stand corrected (I'm new so I don't really know).

I guess one thing that felt weird was posting comments about other films and knowing that those people would be turning around and voting (or not) for my own film... I guess I just felt like it might be a cleaner contest if the people deciding the final results were outside of the comment loop, or something --

Maybe Dylan's idea of not posting the names is a good idea -- it keeps it from getting complicated and too much work, and adds some anonymity (sp?) to it.

Again, I have no hard feelings towards anyone for winning or voting or whatever -- it was a good experience and I'm glad I took part in it. I don't want to be a pain or get anybody mad at me, I'm just trying to give some honest feedback to the process, that's all.

Meryem Ersoz · May 9th, 2006, 09:52 AM

pretty much i second what lorinda said. signing up and completing one of these pretty much makes you an insider. it's the nature of the thing. by participating, we get to know each other a bit better through our work. it's one of the great things about the DVC, unlike other contests or film festivals, where the field changes. we get to see the growth in our craft, not just the outcomes. it's unique that way. but i don't think insider/outsider status is determined by anything other than finishing. and even a boisterous wall of shamer like mike teutsch pretty much qualifies as an insider....

i think, if there *is* a bias, it is not towards "who," it is towards "what." it's towards Hollywood-styled narrative and away from experimental or documentary or any other genre. i am as guilty as anyone in purveying this bias, because, like the whole world, i prefer to be entertained rather than educated or challenged, and my top picks probably reflected that bias as much as anyone's.

i think weighing judge input a little heavier than participant input may be able to balance this out. of course, the judges may share this bias, so that idea may be out the window....

that's my perception, though, and it's not intended to take anything from bill, whose film i loved and voted among my top picks and who is a deserving winner. just an observation. i'm not sure anything needs to change around it. unless i collaborate with someone, one of these days, i'm not likely to make a Hollywood-styled narrative. but i always have that option and that choice.

but unusual outsider films that are so much more moi! who'd wanna give that up??

Chris Barcellos · May 9th, 2006, 10:03 AM

I am new to this forum and DVC. I did enter the December one, but circumstances prevented me from participation. I have no problems with this format and feel like I've gotten to know some people. I've learned that this group works with and is patient with all levels of entries and has no problem with helping and giving constructive criticism. In my circumstances, I enjoy learning the craft, but would never be able to go to film school. My "real" life and obligations prevent that. I am happy to have an outlet to learn from !!! I really wouldn't do this to win some prize- I would do it because I enjoy it, and I enjoy seeing what others come up with. Carry on. When do we do the next one ??

April 28th, 2006, 12:42 AM	#16
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I was hoping everyone would forget and I'd get to keep it. :) Just got home from NAB a couple hours ago. Will sleep tonight and announce the winner tomorrow! __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

April 28th, 2006, 12:05 PM	#17
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	I'll get my results in to you guys this weekend. Family emergencies... Sean McHenry __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

April 28th, 2006, 01:38 PM	#18
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I have 20 votes in so far. I'll extend the voting deadline until SATURDAY NIGHT!!! Sean, get them in! __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

April 30th, 2006, 05:17 AM	#19
Mugurel Dragusin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Philippines Posts: 253	wondering Wondering WHICH Saturday night? :) __________________ Lost signature, if you find it, please return it to me, thank you.

April 30th, 2006, 08:00 AM	#22
Edward Slonaker Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hell's 6 acres in S. Texas Posts: 203	I HOPE it was last night! The suspense is KILLING me!! __________________ Edward Slonaker El Pilon Productions San Patricio, Texas www.elpilon.com

April 30th, 2006, 05:50 AM	#20
Michael Fossenkemper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NYC, weeee. Posts: 417	are you trying to say that i've been up for the last 8 hours hitting the refresh button for nothing?

April 30th, 2006, 06:12 AM	#21
Bradley L Marlow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central Wyoming Posts: 484	That is hilarious Michael! Glad to know I'm not the only one afflicted with this condition. Mugurel: I believe that was last night. Best Wishes~ Bradley

April 30th, 2006, 10:09 AM	#23
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Tallying the last votes right now. Don't go anywhere for 30 mins. :) __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 8th, 2006, 09:32 AM	#24
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	Judging ideas for next time... I'm just wondering if it would be possible next time to have an outside (outside of the contest, maybe outside of the board) panel of several judges for the contest? Been thinking about it, and I think that would be a good idea if it'd be possible. Also it'd be cool to see a little more structure to the judging criteria. I know it's always going to be somewhat subjective because we're dealing with art here, but it'd be nice to see it be more structured and have a better breakdown with what to shoot for, and be able to see on paper what we did wrong or right in comparison to the other films. I think that it would help the contest be more accessible to people who are newer to the contest and don't have the same recognition as the regulars. It would also help with the issue of when to release the films and how that affects the voting process. I think it's kind of a logical step for the contest to continue to mature and grow (if that's the goal). Just my two cents - keep them or spend them.

May 8th, 2006, 11:25 PM	#25
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Philip, the first 3 were judged by 5 hand picked DVinfo moderators. I got one good idea from your suggestions though, and I get your vibe. For the next DVC, if we do the same type of judging, we could keep everyone's name off their films. Unless we go back to non-competitor judging. On the other hand, I've toyed with total outsider judging as well. Either way, for the next I will provide a stricter formula for scoring points. Although to be honest that kind of gets away from what I wanted the challenge to be about. I'm sure there is a happy medium. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 9th, 2006, 08:14 AM	#27
Michael Fossenkemper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NYC, weeee. Posts: 417	I didn't feel any sort of bad vibe or that I was an outsider. it was my first "short film", my first DVC and I cracked the top 5. hmmmm, that kind of makes it seem like the winner didn't have much competition...didn't intend that. anyway, I loved it. Plan on doing the next one. I learned a lot. Some had some time consuming special effects and others just had me outgunned and a couple I couldn't figure out how they did certain things. I shot on a DVC30 and edited the whole thing on a laptop. Even with all of that stacked up against me, I still did pretty good.

May 9th, 2006, 09:47 AM	#28
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	I don't feel like it was a bad experience at all, and maybe the people that won are newer than I realized, so on that I stand corrected (I'm new so I don't really know). I guess one thing that felt weird was posting comments about other films and knowing that those people would be turning around and voting (or not) for my own film... I guess I just felt like it might be a cleaner contest if the people deciding the final results were outside of the comment loop, or something -- Maybe Dylan's idea of not posting the names is a good idea -- it keeps it from getting complicated and too much work, and adds some anonymity (sp?) to it. Again, I have no hard feelings towards anyone for winning or voting or whatever -- it was a good experience and I'm glad I took part in it. I don't want to be a pain or get anybody mad at me, I'm just trying to give some honest feedback to the process, that's all.

May 9th, 2006, 09:52 AM	#29
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	pretty much i second what lorinda said. signing up and completing one of these pretty much makes you an insider. it's the nature of the thing. by participating, we get to know each other a bit better through our work. it's one of the great things about the DVC, unlike other contests or film festivals, where the field changes. we get to see the growth in our craft, not just the outcomes. it's unique that way. but i don't think insider/outsider status is determined by anything other than finishing. and even a boisterous wall of shamer like mike teutsch pretty much qualifies as an insider.... i think, if there is a bias, it is not towards "who," it is towards "what." it's towards Hollywood-styled narrative and away from experimental or documentary or any other genre. i am as guilty as anyone in purveying this bias, because, like the whole world, i prefer to be entertained rather than educated or challenged, and my top picks probably reflected that bias as much as anyone's. i think weighing judge input a little heavier than participant input may be able to balance this out. of course, the judges may share this bias, so that idea may be out the window.... that's my perception, though, and it's not intended to take anything from bill, whose film i loved and voted among my top picks and who is a deserving winner. just an observation. i'm not sure anything needs to change around it. unless i collaborate with someone, one of these days, i'm not likely to make a Hollywood-styled narrative. but i always have that option and that choice. but unusual outsider films that are so much more moi! who'd wanna give that up??

May 9th, 2006, 10:03 AM	#30
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I am new to this forum and DVC. I did enter the December one, but circumstances prevented me from participation. I have no problems with this format and feel like I've gotten to know some people. I've learned that this group works with and is patient with all levels of entries and has no problem with helping and giving constructive criticism. In my circumstances, I enjoy learning the craft, but would never be able to go to film school. My "real" life and obligations prevent that. I am happy to have an outlet to learn from !!! I really wouldn't do this to win some prize- I would do it because I enjoy it, and I enjoy seeing what others come up with. Carry on. When do we do the next one ?? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos