A Ban on embedded films for next DVC

[Stephen van Vuuren]

While I really enjoyed watching all the films, I not enjoyed the pain caused at times by films embedded in web pages. I suggest next round the films must be listed for download and some clues as to what codec is used to help chose a file (I only have one machine with Quicktime 7).

[Jonathan Jones]

Many apologies if I am the culprit. I haven't yet figured out how to provide direct links to my posted movie files a I am still a web page newbie - but if you have QT Pro, I know you can download the movie files from each of the movie pages I posted. This is pretty much what I have done with most of the entries so I can view them multiple times without hogging bandwidth.

I was also going to provide a couple of flash versions, but I haven't been able to get the flash software to work on the loaner I got from Apple because it knows the computer is not 'mine' and won't fire up.

Sincerely sorry, I will try to work on my hosting skills before DVC4.
Best regards,
-Jon

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Jones

Many apologies if I am the culprit. I haven't yet figured out how to provide direct links to my posted movie files a I am still a web page newbie - but if you have QT Pro, I know you can download the movie files from each of the movie pages I posted. This is pretty much what I have done with most of the entries so I can view them multiple times without hogging bandwidth.

I was also going to provide a couple of flash versions, but I haven't been able to get the flash software to work on the loaner I got from Apple because it knows the computer is not 'mine' and won't fire up.

Sincerely sorry, I will try to work on my hosting skills before DVC4.
Best regards,
-Jon

No, there were several - direct link just involves uploading the file to your web-site, hosting area or whatever space you have then making a page with the HTML link to the file. No different than a link to a page.

I agree that future DVCs should provide a little HTML help or even hosting for files for $20 a month I get 2 GB of space and 200 GB of bandwidth at godaddy.com

That way everybody can upload high-rez files to even the playing field and not penalize those without web-sites.

[Jonathan Jones]

I like it....good idea.
-Jon

[Sean McHenry]

Another peeve is this, apparently QT 7 now has the "download" and "Download as source" greyed out unless you buy Pro. That's a cheap shot. In the old QT, you could right click a video or whatever was playing and generally save it to the HD.

Yes, links directly to the files are the only way to go. Sometimes you can select "view source" in the header of the browser and scan ithe html code and see the link to the .mov or .wmv, etc. but that's extra effort and doesn't always work.

I still watched all of them. GOT gave me the most issues for some reason.

Sean McHenry

[Michael Wisniewski]

If anyone needs free space, contact me next time, I have some bandwidth to spare. I could host about 6-8 normal sized video entries. Only downside is I could only host it for about a month, then I'd have to clear it off.

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Originally Posted by Michael Wisniewski

If anyone needs free space, contact me next time, I have some bandwidth to spare. I could host about 6-8 normal sized video entries. Only downside is I could only host it for about a month, then I'd have to clear it off.

I have bandwidth to spare as well.

[Nick Hiltgen]

Sorry If I'm one of those as well, never done delivery onto a website before and this was the only thing I had to upload, I'll keep it in mind for the next dv challenge.

[Sean McHenry]

Nobody should take this as if we are really upset by this, at least I'm not, it's just that it's so much easier for us to grab them and put them on PCs that behave correctly and have the QT goodies, etc, when using direct links.

Sean McHenry

[Jeff Sayre]

Originally Posted by Sean McHenry

...
Yes, links directly to the files are the only way to go. Sometimes you can select "view source" in the header of the browser and scan ithe html code and see the link to the .mov or .wmv, etc. but that's extra effort and doesn't always work.

I still watched all of them. GOT gave me the most issues for some reason.

Sean McHenry

I have to disagree, Sean. GOT gave ME the most problems. ;)

This has indeed been a frustrating experience. After spending a good amount of time learning how to set up QT Streaming Server on my dedicated, leased server and then learning how to program web pages to stream QT files, I am nonplussed at the poor results.

Believe me, it is much, much easier to direct link to a QT file than set up a stream. I am going to convert all my GOT pages to direct links and punt the QT Streaming Server.

I know at least 3 of the judges had problems and I have no idea how many of the viewers did. So, I apologize for any pain and suffering. Please take solace in the fact that my pain and suffering was much worse.

[Meryem Ersoz]

by putting a bunch of restrictions on the delivery, you're going to probably not invite as many first-timers into the competition. i entered the first one (last one) solely to motivate myself to do that very thing, figure out web delivery, and i made some mistakes. i'm still making mistakes, although i've been learning how to correct some of them.

as much as i've enjoyed "competing" in the past two challenges, i would hate to see the spirit of the challenge, which invites everyone into the adventure of learning how to enhance their skills and productivity in all aspects of video production and delivery, to become too rule-bound.

when i can't watch something, i don't. i've probably watched 20 films out of the 27, and about seven of them, i had trouble with loading, for one reason or another. that's fine. sure it would be great if web delivery was consistent, and maybe it is time to lay down a few rules, like maybe dictating a standard aspect ratio or a standard compression form or two. but let's make them rules which would actually GUIDE newcomers instead of dictating to them.

[Sean McHenry]

I would have to say it is much easier to park a video file on a web server and just have it pulled down as a file, not a stream, than it is to view an embeded video in a web page, especially if it's hidden behind java script and redirectors. Anyone should be able to find free web space or already has web space, or can borrow space these days.

I'm not for placing a resriction on anything, it just is so much easier if we don't have to wait 2 hours to see if the "streaming" QT file is ever going to load in a web page. My browsers all say "done" even though they are still in the process of downloading the video to the page. That throws me all the time.

Besides, if Dylan or the judges had to come back to the videos a few times to check something for the judging, it would be best, I would think, if they could download them to their machines and play them at will.

I have been building streaming devices for years. Our recent issues trying to get streaming QT on a Darwin Server can attest to the fact that even those of us who do this sort of thing have issues. Don't sweat the GOT issues.

Also, you can help your fellow viewers by selecting "Progressive Download" when rendering, if that's an option in your software. This lets QT Player cache some of the video and begin playing even if the rest is still downloading. That's not streaming. Streaming downloads nothing. Bits flow in and are then trashed in streaming. Almost nobody here has access to a real streaming server I'm betting.

It's working pretty well overall. If it stays the way it is, I'm cool.

Sean McHenry

[Dick Mays]

I live in the country, and my DSL service is iffy. I start having trouble with files get bigger than about 20M. Thy sometimes get "stuck" in toe download, and then I have to try again.

[James Deane]

Hi all

I have worked in the streaming media industry full time for 4 years now and I know why people are having trouble using embedded video.

The embedded video isn't on a Streaming Server connected to a CDN (Content Delivery Network).

Most people's servers are configured for HTTP and FTP. Streaming media files (WMV, QT, REAL, MPEG) require MMS, RTSP etc.

My feeling is that if the files were on a proper delivery platform, the problems would go away or at least be fairly minimized; But as long as we are going to be putting our files up for everyone to see, I think a direct link and quick reminder to "right click and save as" would be fantastic.

JD

[Sean McHenry]

Best idea in my book is what I and James have said, and, if you need to use QT for compatibility sake between Win and Mac, make it a progressive download (if you have that option) and use a standard codec like Sorenson 3.

James is right, see my previous notes on streaming. Most of these are not hosted on a true streaming server. I am building mine back up again. I used to have a Linux box set up for an Internet radio station with indie music, streaming Helix (Real) and windows media server and so on.

Sean McHenry