DVC3 "Obsolete Technologies"

Meryem Ersoz · September 19th, 2005, 10:42 AM

Okay, okay, before I have to hear about it again....if you don't have QT7 loaded, try this link to an mp4 version of the video....

http://ia300127.us.archive.org/1/ite...chnologies.mp4

I just think the other compression codes significantly degrade the image. It doesn't look too good in mp4, but so it goes....watch in QT7, if at all possible.

QT 7 link is http://ia300142.us.archive.org/0/ite...logiesH264.mov

It is a much cleaner image.

My goal last challenge in DVC2 (my first) was to learn a bit about web delivery. My goal this challenge was to conceptualize, shoot, and deliver my video in a single day (because basically, I only had one free day last week). How very remarkable that we live in an age where this can be done!

Sean McHenry · September 19th, 2005, 10:54 AM

Meryem,
It's not QT 7 so much as the H264 codec you used from QT 7. You could use QT 7 but choose Sorenson3 or some other Codec and it would be great too. I think the difference is that when you are playing it off your hard drive, that plays great for you. I had to download the nearly 97 Meg file to play it out. For some folks, that download might take a few hours. And you are right about MP4. I find it tough to make a good looking MP4 with decent file size for the web. I normally use Windows Media but for compatability, we sort of settled on QT for the judges using Macs I think. I did some tests with Real and they look very good at the same file sizes.

Despite that issue, the video was good. I liked it. I loved the use of the old music throughout. I would have to watch it again to see how much of the content was actually related to cameras but this was a nice piece. You seem to have access to lots of historical items. I wish I had that sort of access. Clever end title too. It may have been a bit long as we got the idea it was the end slate pretty quickly. Cleverly brought into the frame however.

Overall, I think it came across as almost a silent film but with modern technology used to make it. I give it a thumbs up.

Sean

Stephen van Vuuren · September 19th, 2005, 11:30 AM

The XL HD1 shot made me smile - nice touch!

Lorinda Norton · September 19th, 2005, 11:43 AM

Thank you for providing the other link, Meryem. I hate what happens to all the hard work with the compression, too, but with the other link my Explorer kept shutting down!

This was a fun look at the past (and the irony with all this "new" stuff). You've got some interesting treasures stashed in your basement and I'm glad you dug them out for us! Thank you. Nice camera work, too. :)

Fredrik-Larsson · September 19th, 2005, 12:21 PM

I love the opening. The recordplayer and that plant and that bright light. It just seem to be taken from an old 20s movie or something. Then of course... kissing the old Canon goodbye... and then the new Canon.. :)

I figure that you went to an "old stuff" musuem? If it is, where is it? Oh.. and those dancing people.. love them!

Very nice nostalgy trip. :)

Bradley L Marlow · September 19th, 2005, 01:07 PM

Dear Meryem,

I really enjoyed your film and taking a trip through what felt like a small museum. I take it you are a collector of such things? That music! Fantastic! Now there's a piece of tunage one won't hear every day...lol ;)

I too laughed very hard with the new Canon HD photo. I'm sure anyone on this board will totally relate. I gather that moving from Edison to the modern age of visual recording suggested both a throw away society and that while we thirst for the newest and best out there...we shouldn't forget our roots.

Am most impressed that you completed this film in one day. What an accomplishment!

Other comments- maybe "the end" could have been cut down a bit. That shot with the dancing people was wonderful and imagine it must have taken a while to set up? I think there was some lens/light flare in there but might have been the only angle you could have used to get that one to work.

Tyler Baptist · September 19th, 2005, 01:39 PM

A very interesting short. Thanks for showing us the past, present, and future. The only thing is 'The End' is a tad bit too long, but other then that, it was good.

Meryem Ersoz · September 19th, 2005, 01:50 PM

the shot with the "dancing people" is actually my personal favorite. they are actually dancing demons, not people, a fact which is probably hard to distinguish in the down-sized web version.

19th-century viewers perceived many of these early experiments with moving images as uncanny, and lots of the associated imagery is strange and magical. the "toy" that i'm playing with in that shot is a replica of a 19th-century parlor entertainment called a phenakistiscope. that lens flare you noticed, bradley, does not appear on the full size version, so i'm not sure what that little white anomaly is.....

all the stuff is stuff i actually own. i used to use some of it when i was teaching university early film history courses.

names of the stuff which appear in the film:

gramophone
revere 8mm projector
stereopticon
chase's electric cyclorama
triple-bodied magic lantern
magic photoret
phenakistiscope
flipbook
shadowgraphy
XL2
XL H1

my intent was to make a "the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same" type of movie. with all of the complicated, highly technical stuff that we do, all we are really doing when you come right down to it, is playing with light and shadows with a shutter. at its core, the XL H1 is just a highly-evolved phenakistiscope. the basement shadowgraphy ending was also supposed to allude, however vaguely, to plato's cave allegory.

francis ford coppola, who named his own production company american zoetrope, is a real student of film history, actually. (i used to have a replica of a zoetrope, but one of my students broke it....)

also, i think aesthetically, i have a very different view of video than many of the folks who post here. i'm not too interested in thrillers, aliens, blood, zombies, or guns. my analogy for video is miles davis, the pioneering trumpet player who tried to use space, quiet--the absence of sound and noise to create the most beautiful, sacred sounds to ever exit a trumpet. most of what i create (though not all) is inspired by the idea of quiescence, by the idea of capturing something essential. maybe even sacred, if i ever get good at this.....

we can talk easily about sacred music, sacred art, sacred literature. but you never hear anyone link the terms "sacred film." why is that? is there such a thing? can there even be such a thing? what would that even mean?

these are the things that interest me. i don't think i'll win any prizes for bringing my somewhat strange or unusual beliefs about video into our little forum. but i just might help one or two of you transform how you think about what you do, which has always been my one true calling.

we are all just really alchemists here, masquerading as videographers...

...that's kind of the point of my modest little video, i suppose.

thanks for watching and listening.....

Sean McHenry · September 19th, 2005, 03:40 PM

I too enjoy the more off-beat side of video. Things I especially like that aren't mainstream:

Videodrome
Brothers Quay (everything they do - such dedication to stop motion)
David Lynch (Eraserhead - very creepy, Blue Velvet)
The Wall (actually the sadest film I ever saw - I see things differently)
Spider (the new sadest film ever, except Sophies Choice, and Adam)
Lori Anderson (except swimming to Cambodia. Never go into that one)
The Magic Christian (not what you think)
Elephant Parts (What happened to Mike Nesmith anyway?)

and so on.

Sean

Meryem Ersoz · September 19th, 2005, 03:58 PM

i love the brothers quay, sean, have you ever checked out jan svankmeier. highly twisted! visually stunning!

Jeff Sayre · September 19th, 2005, 05:46 PM

Meryem:

Bravo! I loved your film--the pace, the imagery, the allegory. I for one enjoyed the long "The End". It reminded me that no matter how simple a technology is, we can still have problems with it!

Sean McHenry · September 19th, 2005, 06:39 PM

I haven't found any Jan S. locally. Had to send off for the Quay Brothers compilation. I'm still learning things, everyday. It's a good feeling. I'm very nearly 45 now and plan to keep at it till I die. I'll get crusty like Burroghs I suppose. Still, he's interesting. He still alive?

Sean

Forgot, Pennsylvania's forgotten son, Andy Warhol. That leads me to Lou Reed and John Cales CD for Andy. Great party music, depending on the party.

SMM

Meryem Ersoz · September 19th, 2005, 07:32 PM

thanks for the kind words, jeff (and everyone else). i'm glad you got the joke of why "the end" kind of ran on....the other part of it was supposed to be that we're still just kids playing with toys. just our toys have gotten pretty dang expensive!

anyone remember the *talking* GAF Viewmaster (obsolete technology of my youth. those were the days!

Bradley L Marlow · September 19th, 2005, 07:36 PM

Dear Meryem,

Am very interested in your recommendations for these filmmakers. Would you suggest the following?

The Collected Shorts of Jan Svankmajer
The Brothers Quay Collection (1984-1993)

Also, could you throw in one more jewel of "must haves"...something you feel is in keeping with your philosophy? Would love to know...

Meryem Ersoz · September 19th, 2005, 09:08 PM

hi bradley:

actually, i list a page of personal "must haves" on my website at:

http://planeteproductions.net/_wsn/page4.html

with the exception of "grass," which is the first full-length adventure documentary (shot by Merion Cooper, who later went on to direct "King Kong,") these are all little-known films by indie filmmakers/videographers that i think are striving to explore deeper meaning through the medium. they are mostly available only through the film/video makers' websites (listed, though not linked, on mine).

i am a big fan of supporting other indies whenever possible, especially when they are doing something so profound....

these aren't animation, like svankmeier and the quays--they're more documentary films, though not limited to that categorization, because my personal tastes run that way.

hope this is a start.

September 19th, 2005, 10:42 AM	#1
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	DVC3 "Obsolete Technologies" - feedback Okay, okay, before I have to hear about it again....if you don't have QT7 loaded, try this link to an mp4 version of the video.... http://ia300127.us.archive.org/1/ite...chnologies.mp4 I just think the other compression codes significantly degrade the image. It doesn't look too good in mp4, but so it goes....watch in QT7, if at all possible. QT 7 link is http://ia300142.us.archive.org/0/ite...logiesH264.mov It is a much cleaner image. My goal last challenge in DVC2 (my first) was to learn a bit about web delivery. My goal this challenge was to conceptualize, shoot, and deliver my video in a single day (because basically, I only had one free day last week). How very remarkable that we live in an age where this can be done!

September 19th, 2005, 10:54 AM	#2
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	Meryem, It's not QT 7 so much as the H264 codec you used from QT 7. You could use QT 7 but choose Sorenson3 or some other Codec and it would be great too. I think the difference is that when you are playing it off your hard drive, that plays great for you. I had to download the nearly 97 Meg file to play it out. For some folks, that download might take a few hours. And you are right about MP4. I find it tough to make a good looking MP4 with decent file size for the web. I normally use Windows Media but for compatability, we sort of settled on QT for the judges using Macs I think. I did some tests with Real and they look very good at the same file sizes. Despite that issue, the video was good. I liked it. I loved the use of the old music throughout. I would have to watch it again to see how much of the content was actually related to cameras but this was a nice piece. You seem to have access to lots of historical items. I wish I had that sort of access. Clever end title too. It may have been a bit long as we got the idea it was the end slate pretty quickly. Cleverly brought into the frame however. Overall, I think it came across as almost a silent film but with modern technology used to make it. I give it a thumbs up. Sean __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

September 19th, 2005, 11:30 AM	#3
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	The XL HD1 shot made me smile - nice touch! __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 19th, 2005, 11:43 AM	#4
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	Thank you for providing the other link, Meryem. I hate what happens to all the hard work with the compression, too, but with the other link my Explorer kept shutting down! This was a fun look at the past (and the irony with all this "new" stuff). You've got some interesting treasures stashed in your basement and I'm glad you dug them out for us! Thank you. Nice camera work, too. :) __________________ Lorinda

September 19th, 2005, 03:40 PM	#9
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	I too enjoy the more off-beat side of video. Things I especially like that aren't mainstream: Videodrome Brothers Quay (everything they do - such dedication to stop motion) David Lynch (Eraserhead - very creepy, Blue Velvet) The Wall (actually the sadest film I ever saw - I see things differently) Spider (the new sadest film ever, except Sophies Choice, and Adam) Lori Anderson (except swimming to Cambodia. Never go into that one) The Magic Christian (not what you think) Elephant Parts (What happened to Mike Nesmith anyway?) and so on. Sean __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

September 19th, 2005, 12:21 PM	#5
Fredrik-Larsson Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Malmö, Sweden Posts: 395	I love the opening. The recordplayer and that plant and that bright light. It just seem to be taken from an old 20s movie or something. Then of course... kissing the old Canon goodbye... and then the new Canon.. :) I figure that you went to an "old stuff" musuem? If it is, where is it? Oh.. and those dancing people.. love them! Very nice nostalgy trip. :)

September 19th, 2005, 01:07 PM	#6
Bradley L Marlow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central Wyoming Posts: 484	Dear Meryem, I really enjoyed your film and taking a trip through what felt like a small museum. I take it you are a collector of such things? That music! Fantastic! Now there's a piece of tunage one won't hear every day...lol ;) I too laughed very hard with the new Canon HD photo. I'm sure anyone on this board will totally relate. I gather that moving from Edison to the modern age of visual recording suggested both a throw away society and that while we thirst for the newest and best out there...we shouldn't forget our roots. Am most impressed that you completed this film in one day. What an accomplishment! Other comments- maybe "the end" could have been cut down a bit. That shot with the dancing people was wonderful and imagine it must have taken a while to set up? I think there was some lens/light flare in there but might have been the only angle you could have used to get that one to work.

September 19th, 2005, 01:39 PM	#7
Tyler Baptist Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Saskatoon, SK Canada Posts: 71	A very interesting short. Thanks for showing us the past, present, and future. The only thing is 'The End' is a tad bit too long, but other then that, it was good.

September 19th, 2005, 01:50 PM	#8
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	the shot with the "dancing people" is actually my personal favorite. they are actually dancing demons, not people, a fact which is probably hard to distinguish in the down-sized web version. 19th-century viewers perceived many of these early experiments with moving images as uncanny, and lots of the associated imagery is strange and magical. the "toy" that i'm playing with in that shot is a replica of a 19th-century parlor entertainment called a phenakistiscope. that lens flare you noticed, bradley, does not appear on the full size version, so i'm not sure what that little white anomaly is..... all the stuff is stuff i actually own. i used to use some of it when i was teaching university early film history courses. names of the stuff which appear in the film: gramophone revere 8mm projector stereopticon chase's electric cyclorama triple-bodied magic lantern magic photoret phenakistiscope flipbook shadowgraphy XL2 XL H1 my intent was to make a "the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same" type of movie. with all of the complicated, highly technical stuff that we do, all we are really doing when you come right down to it, is playing with light and shadows with a shutter. at its core, the XL H1 is just a highly-evolved phenakistiscope. the basement shadowgraphy ending was also supposed to allude, however vaguely, to plato's cave allegory. francis ford coppola, who named his own production company american zoetrope, is a real student of film history, actually. (i used to have a replica of a zoetrope, but one of my students broke it....) also, i think aesthetically, i have a very different view of video than many of the folks who post here. i'm not too interested in thrillers, aliens, blood, zombies, or guns. my analogy for video is miles davis, the pioneering trumpet player who tried to use space, quiet--the absence of sound and noise to create the most beautiful, sacred sounds to ever exit a trumpet. most of what i create (though not all) is inspired by the idea of quiescence, by the idea of capturing something essential. maybe even sacred, if i ever get good at this..... we can talk easily about sacred music, sacred art, sacred literature. but you never hear anyone link the terms "sacred film." why is that? is there such a thing? can there even be such a thing? what would that even mean? these are the things that interest me. i don't think i'll win any prizes for bringing my somewhat strange or unusual beliefs about video into our little forum. but i just might help one or two of you transform how you think about what you do, which has always been my one true calling. we are all just really alchemists here, masquerading as videographers... ...that's kind of the point of my modest little video, i suppose. thanks for watching and listening.....

September 19th, 2005, 03:58 PM	#10
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	i love the brothers quay, sean, have you ever checked out jan svankmeier. highly twisted! visually stunning!

September 19th, 2005, 05:46 PM	#11
Jeff Sayre Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 301	Meryem: Bravo! I loved your film--the pace, the imagery, the allegory. I for one enjoyed the long "The End". It reminded me that no matter how simple a technology is, we can still have problems with it! __________________ www.SayreMedia.com

September 19th, 2005, 06:39 PM	#12
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	I haven't found any Jan S. locally. Had to send off for the Quay Brothers compilation. I'm still learning things, everyday. It's a good feeling. I'm very nearly 45 now and plan to keep at it till I die. I'll get crusty like Burroghs I suppose. Still, he's interesting. He still alive? Sean Forgot, Pennsylvania's forgotten son, Andy Warhol. That leads me to Lou Reed and John Cales CD for Andy. Great party music, depending on the party. SMM __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com

September 19th, 2005, 07:32 PM	#13
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	thanks for the kind words, jeff (and everyone else). i'm glad you got the joke of why "the end" kind of ran on....the other part of it was supposed to be that we're still just kids playing with toys. just our toys have gotten pretty dang expensive! anyone remember the talking GAF Viewmaster (obsolete technology of my youth. those were the days!

September 19th, 2005, 07:36 PM	#14
Bradley L Marlow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central Wyoming Posts: 484	Dear Meryem, Am very interested in your recommendations for these filmmakers. Would you suggest the following? The Collected Shorts of Jan Svankmajer The Brothers Quay Collection (1984-1993) Also, could you throw in one more jewel of "must haves"...something you feel is in keeping with your philosophy? Would love to know...

September 19th, 2005, 09:08 PM	#15
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	hi bradley: actually, i list a page of personal "must haves" on my website at: http://planeteproductions.net/_wsn/page4.html with the exception of "grass," which is the first full-length adventure documentary (shot by Merion Cooper, who later went on to direct "King Kong,") these are all little-known films by indie filmmakers/videographers that i think are striving to explore deeper meaning through the medium. they are mostly available only through the film/video makers' websites (listed, though not linked, on mine). i am a big fan of supporting other indies whenever possible, especially when they are doing something so profound.... these aren't animation, like svankmeier and the quays--they're more documentary films, though not limited to that categorization, because my personal tastes run that way. hope this is a start.