The DV Challenge #3 at DVinfo.net

Dylan Couper · August 2nd, 2005, 02:58 PM

What, already? Didn't we just do one of these???

TENTATIVELY, The DV Challenge #3 will commence Thursday morning, Sept. 8th. I was thinking about starting it on Sept. 1st, but with kids going back to school that might be a little crazy for some of the parents that compete, so I'm going to circle Sept. 8th on my calendar and write "run that DV Challenge thing" on it.

Changes:
We will have a website by then with a permanent list of all past competitors, winners, and the wall of shame. There may be forgiveness for all previous Wall Of Shamers, since I haven't been keeping very good track.

Time limit: To be determined. At least 3 minutes plus a 1 minute extension, unless the format/theme determines otherwise (oooh, what does THAT mean??)

Prizes: unknown as yet

T-shirts: THERE WILL BE T-SHIRTS!!! Some will be given as prizes, or you will be able to buy them.

Certificates: Will remain cheap, and hot off my laser printer.

Questions?

Daniel Kohl · August 3rd, 2005, 02:37 AM

Canadian or US $?

Dylan Couper · August 3rd, 2005, 09:05 AM

These days the difference is minimal, but for simplicity sake, US. Although if I made it in GBP, I'd be RIIIICH!!!! :)
Payments would be Paypal, there would probably be a reduced rate for early sign up.

The website is now underway.

Michael Gibbons · August 5th, 2005, 12:53 PM

Any idea when you'll be opening things up Dylan? The idea of doing another one of these actually makes me feel a bit queasy, so I'd like to lock myself in before my courage fails completely.

Thanks
Michael

Dylan Couper · August 5th, 2005, 07:27 PM

The website will be done by Sunday, Keith has done some pretty cool design for it. After that, sign up for DVC3 will begin.

Patrick Jenkins · August 6th, 2005, 10:36 AM

Maybe it's just me, but why is there an entry fee?

Mike Teutsch · August 6th, 2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Jenkins

Maybe it's just me, but why is there an entry fee?

There will be a special website to host all of the movies, supplies and t-shirt printing, postage and other expenses. PLus,plus.

The number of entries is sure to go up, and expenses must be covered.

Mike

Dylan Couper · August 6th, 2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Jenkins

Maybe it's just me, but why is there an entry fee?

A fair question! How about thinking of it this way, there is no entry fee, but there is a small donation to help cover the costs of running the competition?

It was actually suggest by some of the participants in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=48057

The bigger this gets, the more it costs me out of my "I wish I had a Canon XL2" fund. Unlike many of the other online competitions out there, this is independent, and not owned by a larger corporation that is funding it. Here is a list of the expenses I'm paying for the next one:
Website design
Website hosting
T-shirt design
T-shirt printing
Certificate printing (ok, this is just more toner for my printer because I ran out)
Postage
Some cash to throw at the other judges for helping out.
It will basically be pushing four figures by the time I'm done.

But in return, this is what you get:
T-shirts added to the prize packages
Possibly higher quality certificates
A website where you and your film will be listed so even non forum members will see it.
Web hosting for your film (this may not be in place for DVC3)
The peace of mind of being able to help cover the costs of keeping the Challenge running.

Not bad for $20.

Jonathan Jones · August 6th, 2005, 07:24 PM

So does that mean it is going to be $20? Not bad at all - a great deal if you ask me....but I am trying to run the math to see how it balances out on your end also, and here are some basic stats I am working from (all of it just supposition).

Let's say that there is an entrance fee of $20. If the same number of entrants pony up for DVC3 as for DVC2, and they each pay the fee...then you are looking at an estimate of $400 in proceeds to cover your expenses.

If, by suggesting your expenses will reach the 4 digit range, you mean at least $1000 (unless two of those digits come after the decimal point), then it would seem you are taking quite a hit...and I would recommend you for canonization to Pope Benedict - or at least to Canon.

OTOH - If DVC3 experiences the same exponential growth that occurred between DVC1 and DVC2, then you are looking at the potential listing of 80 entrants. You could be looking at a slight profit margin towards your XL2 (Canon again)

But then you have to factor in the mysterious number of folks who entered because it was free, and might think twice about an entrance fee. This factor could be 2% or it could be 15% - who knows....

So it would seem that either way...you are taking a gamble. I applaud you- although throwing some extra money your way would probably be preferable. Sorry.....I will enter and pay whatever fee there is to enter...and gladly....but expenses towards my XL2, Final Cut, mics, lights, RAM etc... has me watering down my milk some days.

If a large corporate account transpires in the coming weeks that I hope to snag, then maybe I will be able to help underwrite DVC 4 or DVC 5. But until then, I await September 8th with much anticipation.
-Jon

Daniel Kohl · August 7th, 2005, 02:46 PM

Hi Dylan,

On the subject of low toner levels: first-off, I want to let you know that the "certificate du "Best Cinematography"", arrived yesterday. The envelope opening ceremony was equally exciting as that for the dv creators.net package. This time my daughter was present, and she is very enthusiastic about the next challenge.

I would like to pipe in here with my own personal feelings about the cost vs material factor in this event. Since, having taken part in the DVC2, I have checked-out some other on-line competitions, for the first time. I didn't have to look very far or for very long to discover that there are quite a few, and some that are both complex in their rules and prize structure. I have to say that I think that it would be a shame if this challenge were to attempt to fit into the general arena of web movie competitions.

What I like about the DVC, the way it is, is that it is unpretentious, strait forward, and the potential for "pressure to perform" for the participants is almost purely voluntary (due to the low (material) stakes).

This is the first challenge (in the broader sense) that I have ever encountered where a negative incentive has worked so well. I feel that the struggle to stay off of "the wall of shame" is ingenious, ironic, funny, poetic, and a few other adjectives that elude me at the moment.

And although, the thought that you, or anyone involved in the organization and implementation of this event, has, or should be laying money out of their own pocket is really unappealing to me, (I almost wanted to suggest that I send you a self addressed stamped envelope for you to send me my CBC in (but I couldn't think of where I could find some Canadian postage stamps here in Frankfurt)), the fact that you set up this event, as a means of communication, and stimulation for discourse, without initial thoughts of investment vs profit, for, perhaps, your own interest and amusement, is highly commendable. (Sorry for the run-on sentence)

That is the kind of spirit I like about the DVinfo.net board. It is this philosophy that has made Chris Hurd's initial idea into a super success.

What I would like to see, is this spirit continued in this challenge. I think 20$ is an acceptable suggested entrance donation, especially for the setting-up of a web-space for entries. And I would even encourage people of better means to donate more than 20$. But I hope that it will be possible to continue the DVC in the DVinfo.net essence - free input, free output. If the thing can maintain itself with no financial commitments from it's participants, then it belongs here in the DVinfo.net. If not, I fear that it will become it's own thing (which isn't necessarily bad), and could lose it's connection to this forum. As far as I know, Chris has never asked any participants for any money - ever. I don't know how or why he made the initial investment to set up the Watch Dog (I'm assuming it was for purely philanthropic reasons, or for his own interest and amusement).

Anyway, to wrap this up: and back to - low toner levels - I love the Certificate (nice paper - what is that? Hanf?). One suggestion; if you avoid large patches of dense black, you could save on toner.

Thanks a lot man! Yoooohooo! I'm not only; not on the Wall O´Shame, but I'm the Best Cinematographer of the DVinfo.net's DV Challenge 2! ... I've got to start filling that shirt now.

Dylan Couper · August 7th, 2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Kohl

Hi Dylan,

On the subject of low toner levels: first-off, I want to let you know that the "certificate du "Best Cinematography"", arrived yesterday.

Cool, that got there pretty quickly considering the distance!

Quote:

I have checked-out some other on-line competitions, for the first time. I didn't have to look very far or for very long to discover that there are quite a few, and some that are both complex in their rules and prize structure. I have to say that I think that it would be a shame if this challenge were to attempt to fit into the general arena of web movie competitions.

Don't worry, it won't. Beauty in simplicity. Who am I to tell you what to do with your movie? I find the more restrictions, the worse the movies.

Quote:

But I hope that it will be possible to continue the DVC in the DVinfo.net essence - free input, free output. If the thing can maintain itself with no financial commitments from it's participants, then it belongs here in the DVinfo.net. If not, I fear that it will become it's own thing (which isn't necessarily bad), and could lose it's connection to this forum. As far as I know, Chris has never asked any participants for any money - ever.

Chris does have sponsors to help cover the costs for DVinfo. :) If I could get sponsors to cover the costs of running it, I'd move it back to being free.
Ahem.... The DV Challenge.... as presented by.... Ferrari!
Actually, I'm thinking of having a first-timers category that remains free. We'll see how it goes this time first.

Quote:

Anyway, to wrap this up: and back to - low toner levels - I love the Certificate (nice paper - what is that? Hanf?). One suggestion; if you avoid large patches of dense black, you could save on toner.

I can't remember the type of paper. I did end up buying better paper to use for these, so they aren't completely cheap certificates hot off my printer. :)

Mike Teutsch · August 7th, 2005, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

I can't remember the type of paper. I did end up buying better paper to use for these, so they aren't completely cheap certificates hot off my printer. :)

Still waiting for mine, but still excited! Toilet paper would be fine!

Mike

Sean McHenry · August 9th, 2005, 08:12 AM

Just so everyone knows, mine arrived last Friday. I mentioned this to Dylan off-list but wanted others to know they are getting to people.

I'm looking for a frame for it.

One other thing, While I love the idea of the sponsors giving prizes, maybe we could ask Guy or one of the other sponsors to give cash toward the cause? We've operated without prizes before and I would love to find somebody that could underwrite the first timers at least.

Thanks again everyone. This is turning into quite a thing now.

Sean

Dylan Couper · August 11th, 2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

Toilet paper would be fine!

Mike

Wish you had told me ahead of time! :)

Mike Teutsch · August 11th, 2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

Wish you had told me ahead of time! :)

As I posted in the other thread today, I received my certificate yesterday, and could not be more thrilled. But I must admit that the challenge of seeing it printed on TP would be something, but I would not care what it was printed on, I got one!

Like I said, the thought of DV #3 has me very nervous. I bought my first camera just 10 months ago, after I signed up for this forum. I had never messed with anything like this before. This forum is the best, and I have studied hard here and elsewhere, trying to learn as much as I can, and giving back what I can. I can learn the technical stuff here, but I am afraid I will surely lag behind in artistic and other aspects.

I only wish I could have found out about DV #1 in time to enter. Not just because I had a great idea for it, but I could have been one of only a couple of people to be able to keep entering and compete in all of them. Would have been like being someone who could say they had competed in every Indy 500. Lorinda and Jon, I think you are the only two who can do this! Keep going!

I am a nobody on this forum, but I will compete and do the best I can. Come on the rest of you, make Dylan earn his keep! Enter! Looking for 50 entries in DV #3. Sorry Dylan!

Mike

August 3rd, 2005, 02:37 AM	#2
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Canadian or US $? __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

August 5th, 2005, 12:53 PM	#4
Michael Gibbons Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Loveland, Colorado, USA Posts: 292	sign up date Any idea when you'll be opening things up Dylan? The idea of doing another one of these actually makes me feel a bit queasy, so I'd like to lock myself in before my courage fails completely. Thanks Michael __________________ " When some wild-eyed, eight foot tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head against a bar room wall, and looks you crooked in the eye, and he asks you if you've payed your dues, well, you just stare that big suker right back in the eye, and you remember what old Jack Burton always says at a time like that, 'Have you paid your dues, Jack? Yes sir, the check is in the mail."

August 5th, 2005, 07:27 PM	#5
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	The website will be done by Sunday, Keith has done some pretty cool design for it. After that, sign up for DVC3 will begin. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

August 6th, 2005, 10:36 AM	#6
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	Maybe it's just me, but why is there an entry fee? __________________ PAL shooter in NTSC territory

August 7th, 2005, 02:46 PM	#10
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	toner for your printer Hi Dylan, On the subject of low toner levels: first-off, I want to let you know that the "certificate du "Best Cinematography"", arrived yesterday. The envelope opening ceremony was equally exciting as that for the dv creators.net package. This time my daughter was present, and she is very enthusiastic about the next challenge. I would like to pipe in here with my own personal feelings about the cost vs material factor in this event. Since, having taken part in the DVC2, I have checked-out some other on-line competitions, for the first time. I didn't have to look very far or for very long to discover that there are quite a few, and some that are both complex in their rules and prize structure. I have to say that I think that it would be a shame if this challenge were to attempt to fit into the general arena of web movie competitions. What I like about the DVC, the way it is, is that it is unpretentious, strait forward, and the potential for "pressure to perform" for the participants is almost purely voluntary (due to the low (material) stakes). This is the first challenge (in the broader sense) that I have ever encountered where a negative incentive has worked so well. I feel that the struggle to stay off of "the wall of shame" is ingenious, ironic, funny, poetic, and a few other adjectives that elude me at the moment. And although, the thought that you, or anyone involved in the organization and implementation of this event, has, or should be laying money out of their own pocket is really unappealing to me, (I almost wanted to suggest that I send you a self addressed stamped envelope for you to send me my CBC in (but I couldn't think of where I could find some Canadian postage stamps here in Frankfurt)), the fact that you set up this event, as a means of communication, and stimulation for discourse, without initial thoughts of investment vs profit, for, perhaps, your own interest and amusement, is highly commendable. (Sorry for the run-on sentence) That is the kind of spirit I like about the DVinfo.net board. It is this philosophy that has made Chris Hurd's initial idea into a super success. What I would like to see, is this spirit continued in this challenge. I think 20$ is an acceptable suggested entrance donation, especially for the setting-up of a web-space for entries. And I would even encourage people of better means to donate more than 20$. But I hope that it will be possible to continue the DVC in the DVinfo.net essence - free input, free output. If the thing can maintain itself with no financial commitments from it's participants, then it belongs here in the DVinfo.net. If not, I fear that it will become it's own thing (which isn't necessarily bad), and could lose it's connection to this forum. As far as I know, Chris has never asked any participants for any money - ever. I don't know how or why he made the initial investment to set up the Watch Dog (I'm assuming it was for purely philanthropic reasons, or for his own interest and amusement). Anyway, to wrap this up: and back to - low toner levels - I love the Certificate (nice paper - what is that? Hanf?). One suggestion; if you avoid large patches of dense black, you could save on toner. Thanks a lot man! Yoooohooo! I'm not only; not on the Wall O´Shame, but I'm the Best Cinematographer of the DVinfo.net's DV Challenge 2! ... I've got to start filling that shirt now. __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1 Last edited by Daniel Kohl; August 7th, 2005 at 02:48 PM. Reason: toner for your printer

August 2nd, 2005, 02:58 PM	#1
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	The DV Challenge #3 What, already? Didn't we just do one of these??? TENTATIVELY, The DV Challenge #3 will commence Thursday morning, Sept. 8th. I was thinking about starting it on Sept. 1st, but with kids going back to school that might be a little crazy for some of the parents that compete, so I'm going to circle Sept. 8th on my calendar and write "run that DV Challenge thing" on it. Changes: We will have a website by then with a permanent list of all past competitors, winners, and the wall of shame. There may be forgiveness for all previous Wall Of Shamers, since I haven't been keeping very good track. Time limit: To be determined. At least 3 minutes plus a 1 minute extension, unless the format/theme determines otherwise (oooh, what does THAT mean??) Prizes: unknown as yet T-shirts: THERE WILL BE T-SHIRTS!!! Some will be given as prizes, or you will be able to buy them. Certificates: Will remain cheap, and hot off my laser printer. Questions? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

August 3rd, 2005, 09:05 AM	#3
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	These days the difference is minimal, but for simplicity sake, US. Although if I made it in GBP, I'd be RIIIICH!!!! :) Payments would be Paypal, there would probably be a reduced rate for early sign up. The website is now underway. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

August 6th, 2005, 07:24 PM	#9
Jonathan Jones Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Healdsburg, California Posts: 1,138	So does that mean it is going to be $20? Not bad at all - a great deal if you ask me....but I am trying to run the math to see how it balances out on your end also, and here are some basic stats I am working from (all of it just supposition). Let's say that there is an entrance fee of $20. If the same number of entrants pony up for DVC3 as for DVC2, and they each pay the fee...then you are looking at an estimate of $400 in proceeds to cover your expenses. If, by suggesting your expenses will reach the 4 digit range, you mean at least $1000 (unless two of those digits come after the decimal point), then it would seem you are taking quite a hit...and I would recommend you for canonization to Pope Benedict - or at least to Canon. OTOH - If DVC3 experiences the same exponential growth that occurred between DVC1 and DVC2, then you are looking at the potential listing of 80 entrants. You could be looking at a slight profit margin towards your XL2 (Canon again) But then you have to factor in the mysterious number of folks who entered because it was free, and might think twice about an entrance fee. This factor could be 2% or it could be 15% - who knows.... So it would seem that either way...you are taking a gamble. I applaud you- although throwing some extra money your way would probably be preferable. Sorry.....I will enter and pay whatever fee there is to enter...and gladly....but expenses towards my XL2, Final Cut, mics, lights, RAM etc... has me watering down my milk some days. If a large corporate account transpires in the coming weeks that I hope to snag, then maybe I will be able to help underwrite DVC 4 or DVC 5. But until then, I await September 8th with much anticipation. -Jon

August 9th, 2005, 08:12 AM	#13
Sean McHenry Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hilliard, Ohio Posts: 1,193	Just so everyone knows, mine arrived last Friday. I mentioned this to Dylan off-list but wanted others to know they are getting to people. I'm looking for a frame for it. One other thing, While I love the idea of the sponsors giving prizes, maybe we could ask Guy or one of the other sponsors to give cash toward the cause? We've operated without prizes before and I would love to find somebody that could underwrite the first timers at least. Thanks again everyone. This is turning into quite a thing now. Sean __________________ ‘I don’t know what I’m doing, and I’m shooting on D.V.’ - my hero - David Lynch http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com