DV Challenge rules/discussions

[Sean McHenry]

Wow. Ok, I guess we finally found out Dylans thoughts on Canon Vs Sony, or anything else for that matter.

So, I do like the idea of a first timer award or keeping a seperate catagory. I would hope it would level the field a bit. On the criteria, I'm not so sure locking out professionals in the field would have made it tick for me. That is, while I have worked in various aspects of television, I had never done the whole show myself until DV Challenge 2. So while I have a job in the field, it was still my first attempt at such a task. It might seem a little like saying a bicycle repairman has to compete in the Tour de France as a Professional. He never raced but he has lots of experience with bikes.

I only argue that as it may affect others in related fields. After this one, I'm not a "noob" anyway so it doesn't work for or against me next time. I know I will never be a 1st timer again.

On the entry fee, I generally like the idea but it may keep people out and complaints of lost or missing (in Jamaica) entry fees could be an issue Dylan may not want to have to work with. I would however support corporate sponsorship in that they help with administration fees and out of pocket fees, but not bar tabs...

DVCreaters.net kicked in nice booty this year and I love that. If anyone else would like to sponsor the event, we might give them a mention or if the T-Shirt idea pans out, a spot on the shirt or something. Frankly, for the sake of the first DV Challenge winner and myself, if you get shirts made, let me know as I would wear it proudly. Sponsorship on T-shirts in general might not be a bad idea either. They could simply announce participation in the event. I'd buy one tomorrow. Dylan might want to get with Chris on that but I have my wallet in my hand right now.

I would also be willing to kick in some cold hard cash to help sponsor the next event. Perhaps like PBS, set levels of participation and sponsorship Dylan. Couldn't hurt to ask around.

Sean

[Michael Gibbons]

I agree with Dylan that Thursday should be the day the theme is released. this gives the weekend to shoot, the week to edit, reshoot, and get it online.

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Michael Gibbons

I agree with Dylan that Thursday should be the day the theme is released. this gives the weekend to shoot, the week to edit, reshoot, and get it online.

Dylan did not say what the day "should," he just gave the reason for choosing it. Perhaps this is something we should discuss further.

All I know is that coming up with your idea, writing, storyboarding, getting props, finding your actors, and setting up equipment can take two to three days and then your weekend is gone. Maybe a Wednesday start would be good, but let's look at it further.

Either way, I'll do my best to get in and done with mine. It is sure a great learning tool!

Mike

[Barbara Cole]

I would like to see a Wed Evening or Thursday AM release to the theme. I work during the week and need the weekend to shoot. But I can edit in the evenings after work. That way I could plan the shots on Thurs and Friday. Shoot on the weekend and get it uploaded. We could move the end time up as well to keep the amount of time the same.

Or We could think about releasing the theme, on Friday night and running the contest until Midnight Sunday the following week. That way we would have two weekends, and still keep the contest under 10 days.
Barbara

[Michael Gibbons]

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

Dylan did not say what the day "should," he just gave the reason for choosing it.

It was certainly not my intent to put words in anyone's mouth I was merely agreeing with Dylan's reasons. Goodness. :(

[Sean McHenry]

I'm thinking about 1:37 am of Thursday morning would be good for me. And the contest should run 6 days, 14 hours and 26 minutes.

I'm joking naturally. It should start at 1:38am like any real contest should...

I agree with everyone. We all have some valid points. I like Dylans thoughts on why he chose Friday evening. In retrospect, if I would have had to shoot, edit, compress all on the same day, I never would have been done. In fact, I am reversing myself. Starting on a Monday might be a bad idea as we only have the very last 2 days to get anything serious done. Too big a time pinch for most folks I think.

Sean

[Jeff Sayre]

Originally Posted by Barbara Cole

I would like to see a Wed Evening or Thursday AM release to the theme. I work during the week and need the weekend to shoot. But I can edit in the evenings after work. That way I could plan the shots on Thurs and Friday. Shoot on the weekend and get it uploaded. Barbara

I like Barbara's idea to release the theme 24-hours earlier. That will address people's concerns of not having sufficient time to write a script, storyboard it, find props and locations, and finish all the pre-shoot logistics. Also, I do think it is crucial to allow the weekend for shooting and the following week days for post-production and encoding.

Therefore, if the theme was announced on Wednesday and the finished short was required to be uploaded to a website by midnight PST the following Friday, that would give everyone more than enough time to finish.

As far as the time limit goes, I like Dylan's idea to allow for a 3-4 minute maximum time range. That gives those of us who feel we would benefit by an extra 60 seconds the opportunity to prove it. :)

Concerning first timers versus "seasoned" veterans, it does not matter to me. I would prefer keeping the group together as it gives first timers a better challenge. But, either way, the DVC's are worth evolving and expanding.

Finally, should there be a token entrance fee to help Dylan and the judges with their time and expenses? Yes, I believe it is only fitting--especially as the number of participants grows. How many did we have in DVC1 and in DVC2? DVC3 could be 45-50 entrants with 30-35 actually posting a piece. That is a lot of work for Dylan and crew. I say $25 per person minimum.

[Barry Gribble]

Dylan,

First thanks a bunch for running this... it is great. I am shamed, currently, because I got busy that week. I will be back though.

My suggestions:

1. I really like the earlier start - like Tuesday. Assuming the weekend is the best shooting time, that gives us a lot more time to write, assemble cast, etc.

2. I like a 5 minute limit. It gives people more flexibility. Those who believe that 3 should be enough to say what you want to say can still make theirs 3 and then stand out for their excellent economy of expression.

3. Prizes are great... They are not the point, but the definitely give that extra ounce of encouragement. Maybe as a nod to the sponsors (thank you sponsors) we can require that the winner post a pic of themselves with the prize.

4. Entry fees... I would be fine with a nominal fee... $10 or so. I think it helps people take it more seriously when they have paid to be there.

5. Judging Categories. I mentioned this before, I am still for it... I think there should be three categories: technical, artistic, and use of theme.
As it stands with only technical and use of theme someone could make a technically perfect short, right on theme but with no artistic merit and win. I know that you are actually considering artistic merit in the judging, which is great - I would just like to see it broken out.

6. Minor point... but I would have loved to have the links to the movies in the "here are the winners" post.

Again thanks a bunch... it is a really cool thing that you do. Keep up the good work.

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Michael Gibbons

It was certainly not my intent to put words in anyone's mouth I was merely agreeing with Dylan's reasons. Goodness. :(

Sorry if you took offense Michael, I assure you none was intended. We Michaels have to stick together you know!

I am too new to this to be able to compete on an artistic basis yet, but I will get better, so it is important to me to have time for a good idea and story line. My entry, my first anything---short, long or anything else---took me until Thursday, to come up with a good idea. In fact, I had already posted that I would be on the wall of shame, until the idea struck me.

Whatever day, I'll be there or on the wall! Wednesday does sound pretty good though.

As far as the entry fee, if there is one, I would say keep as low as is feasable. To high may keep some out. If is is say $10.00, but you have to pay just to enter, then you assure that less people will sign just to put their name in the post, and give them incentive to shoot something.

Just as a caution, you may at some point, have to limit the number of participants. When it starts to climb to 50 or more, the judges could be in serious trouble. You may have bitten off more than you can chew!

Mike

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Barry Gribble

Dylan,

First thanks a bunch for running this... it is great. I am shamed, currently, because I got busy that week. I will be back though.

I'm making the Wall Of Shame starting by first names alphabetically, just for you Barry. :)

1. I really like the earlier start - like Tuesday. Assuming the weekend is the best shooting time, that gives us a lot more time to write, assemble cast, etc.

I think I might go for first thing Thursday morning, or late wednesday night. That gives you two full days of pre-production. You *should* have a talent pool, locations, and crew lined up for a weekend shoot well before anyway.

2. I like a 5 minute limit. It gives people more flexibility. Those who believe that 3 should be enough to say what you want to say can still make theirs 3 and then stand out for their excellent economy of expression.

The only problem here is that a 3 minute film is considerably different than a 5 minute film. One of the ways I want to keep the playing field level is by limiting the amount of playing field itself. Limiting the time makes you maximise your creativity (which is why TV commercials are the most creative medium of all) over the amount of production you can squeeze in.
A 5 minute short is close to double the time of a three minute, if you inlcude credits. That is a significant advantage for those who stick to the "suggested" time. I WILL give a five minute running time some more thought, but so far, I think the best balance is a 3 minute suggested time, with a 4 minute max. Honestly, I believe it won't make the submissions better, just longer.

3. Prizes are great... They are not the point, but the definitely give that extra ounce of encouragement. Maybe as a nod to the sponsors (thank you sponsors) we can require that the winner post a pic of themselves with the prize.

I like that idea!

4. Entry fees... I would be fine with a nominal fee... $10 or so. I think it helps people take it more seriously when they have paid to be there.

Yeah and if you all paid $200 to enter, like most short film competitions, then everyone would have completed their entry and I'd be playing with my new XL2. :)
I'm thinking the entry fee should be at least $20, but then I'll be able to get t-shirts printed as prizes for the winners, and everyone that enters would at least get a certificate of completion.

5. Judging Categories. I mentioned this before, I am still for it... I think there should be three categories: technical, artistic, and use of theme.
As it stands with only technical and use of theme someone could make a technically perfect short, right on theme but with no artistic merit and win. I know that you are actually considering artistic merit in the judging, which is great - I would just like to see it broken out.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm not against the idea at all, I'll think about it. I'd rather leave Best Film a devision of story and production value, and then give "artistic merit" it's own prize, which is sort of what happened with this DVC2, and the Cinematography award. We could keep Best Cinematography as a permanent "artistic" award. Not exactly the same thing, but close.

6. Minor point... but I would have loved to have the links to the movies in the "here are the winners" post.

I meant to but they kept pressuring me to get the winners up. :)

Again thanks a bunch... it is a really cool thing that you do. Keep up the good work.

No problem, now get your butt off the Wall Of Shame! :D