Cheap sit on dolly?? at DVinfo.net

Andy Graham · January 27th, 2006, 05:38 PM

Does anyone know of a cheap sit on dolly option that you can use in doors?.

the link below shows the kind of thing i mean, but the price for that is crazy...there has to be a cheaper option thats similar.

http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=...ducts_ID=26251

building one yourself is easy enough but building one that can steer is a different matter

any ideas?

Andy.

Chris Barcellos · January 27th, 2006, 05:54 PM

Andy, check these out:

http://catalog.cisco-eagle.com/mm5/m...WagonTruckHard

Andy Graham · January 27th, 2006, 06:14 PM

Thats more like it!

I could fit a seat on to that and fit a small tower that takes my glidecam car mount for extra smoothness.

I asume the 24W 48L is in inches?

good man chris, I new there was a better way to go than these lunatics selling them for $2300

Andy.

K. Forman · January 27th, 2006, 07:31 PM

Try a wheelchair. Get one with a hook for an IV bag, and you can suspend your cam from it, giving you a sort of glidecam effect.

Joe Barker · January 27th, 2006, 08:12 PM

Why pay $500+ for what looks like a simple wagon.Pick one up for $85 at the local hardware and screw on a wooden deck.For some reason common sense seems to go out of the window when it comes to film making,everything ends up becoming highly technical and expensive.I've seen great dollies made from old bike parts,strolers,shopping trollies,wheel chairs etc.The garbage dumps are overflowing with wasted resourses.All thats needed is a bit of creativity and imagination. Oh! isn't that what film making is all about?

Andy Graham · January 27th, 2006, 09:02 PM

I see a gap in the market here, someone could make a sit on dolly system that is in the region of $250, the hard part is making it steerable which is not a problem if you have the tools and materials.

Charles Papert · January 28th, 2006, 07:43 PM

The phrase "steerable" is a loaded gun, often the case with any film technology that is attacked for being ludicrously overpriced. In the case of the venerable doorway dolly, it's not a sophisticated piece of gear but know that it is designed so that the pneumatic wheels can be replaced with track wheels to ride on standard track, the platform is built low to the ground so that the minimum lens height is less than one with wheels entirely under the platform, etc. On film sets you are more likely to see doorway dollies (and their big brother, the Western dolly) hauling cable around the set than transporting a camera, although they are occasionally used with a full-on pneumatic dolly riding on top on uneven terrain like a golf course.

Regarding steerability, if one was to bother to start building a dolly it would be smart to think about a more sophisticated steering mechanism than the simple two-wheel method employed by the doorway dolly. A crab dolly has the ability to switch between two and four wheel steering (where all four wheels will turn simultaneously which keeps the camera platform facing forwards while the dolly is moved sideways or in compound moves). Four wheel or crab steering is much more useful than two wheel for most types of shooting...in fact, two wheel is usually used only to set the angle of the dolly while you are lining up a shot. For a lightweight dolly used for DV shooting, it's easy enough to pick up one end and move it around, so my recommendation would be to focus on building a crab dolly, and if you want to get really sexy, figure out a linkage system where you can easily switch between modes (on high end dollies this is achieved with a gearshift-type lever).

If you are a fan of curved track, keep in mind that unless you can manually unlink the wheels from each other you won't be able to ride on curves. A third mode known as roundy-round is available on some crab dollies, where the front and back wheels turn independently of each other to mimic the curve of the track. However it's probably better and easier to build a skatewheel setup for your dolly that allows for articulation where each set of wheels meets the axle, which will allow you to use curved track.

Andy Graham · January 29th, 2006, 03:03 AM

I found a couple of links that folks might like which include the two things your talking about Charles.

http://cinekinetic.com/other/wonkwheels.html
and
http://www.glideshot.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=477

I think the best option there is the glideshot wheels, there cheap and you can fit them on any board yourself. getting some track is easy enough, you could get a metal worker to weld up some sections of alluminium pipe or even plumming pipes.

Andy

Alan Galbraith · January 29th, 2006, 12:18 PM

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37320

Bill Ball · January 29th, 2006, 04:32 PM

Who has actually used one of those garden trucks (e.g. the Harbor Freight example) with success in making a movie?

I have one and I tried it. The knobby tires create way too much vibration, even on the smoothest surface. The linkages are sloppy and cause the platform to jump around. The steering is far too slack and vague. And of course it cannot be tracked. They are fine for moving plants and cement around.

I made a simple dolly with a piece of plywood and some inline skate wheels. Although not ideal, it is far better than one of those garden carts. Plus I can pick it up with one hand. I been pushed on it with my cam and tripod rolling on sheets of thin plywood. I plan to rebuild in a tracked version soon.

Take your camera to your local home center and see if you can produce steady shots from a garden truck before buying one for this purpose.

Joe Barker · January 29th, 2006, 07:16 PM

If you want to use a garden truck use one with solid tyres, the pneumatic ones make way too much noise. Also the handles and wheels can be shimmed to get rid of all that slop.
I just built myself a pipe dolly that I can secure my Mannfrotto 525P tripod on, and still get plenty of hight adjustment. I used 8 skateboard wheels and made the frame so it can be dismantled for transporting. The dolly can run on a curved or circular track so long as the circumference is not too tight. I can also drop the dolly onto another frame with three larger caster wheels and use it like a Mannfrotto tripod dolly. The whole cost to make it was $70 in materials, and about 6 hours labour. It’s a simple rig but it does the job. Of coarse, as with any pipe dolly the pipes are always awkward parts to transport.

Daniel Riser · February 1st, 2006, 02:24 PM

Where can I find the prices on the cinekinetics guy?

Thanks,

Dan

Peter Wiley · February 1st, 2006, 08:16 PM

I once experimented with the garden cart solution. Long story short, the quality of the bearings in inexpensive carts is just not good enough to produce a stable, slient camera platform.

The hardware to look at for building a doorway dolly-like knockoff is gokart hardware. Gokart wheels can be purchased with high quality bearings. They are not cheap, but they aren't all that expenseive and come close to what's used in the expensive dollys. A range of tyres is available including slicks. Also available via go kart hardware outlets is steering hardware (although I have not tried it in a dolly application).

The place to go (in the U.S.) for the right kind of seat is a fishing boat outlet. Simple fishing boat seats work well as dolly seats and can be bolted right to the deck.

I can't hunt up the links at the moment, but will if anyone is interested.

January 27th, 2006, 05:38 PM	#1
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	Cheap sit on dolly?? Does anyone know of a cheap sit on dolly option that you can use in doors?. the link below shows the kind of thing i mean, but the price for that is crazy...there has to be a cheaper option thats similar. http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=...ducts_ID=26251 building one yourself is easy enough but building one that can steer is a different matter any ideas? Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

January 27th, 2006, 05:54 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Industrial Carts ? Andy, check these out: http://catalog.cisco-eagle.com/mm5/m...WagonTruckHard __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 27th, 2006, 06:14 PM	#3
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	Thats more like it! I could fit a seat on to that and fit a small tower that takes my glidecam car mount for extra smoothness. I asume the 24W 48L is in inches? good man chris, I new there was a better way to go than these lunatics selling them for $2300 Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

January 27th, 2006, 07:31 PM	#4
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Try a wheelchair. Get one with a hook for an IV bag, and you can suspend your cam from it, giving you a sort of glidecam effect. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

January 27th, 2006, 09:02 PM	#6
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	I see a gap in the market here, someone could make a sit on dolly system that is in the region of $250, the hard part is making it steerable which is not a problem if you have the tools and materials. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

January 27th, 2006, 08:12 PM	#5
Joe Barker Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Perth WA Australia Posts: 124	Why pay $500+ for what looks like a simple wagon.Pick one up for $85 at the local hardware and screw on a wooden deck.For some reason common sense seems to go out of the window when it comes to film making,everything ends up becoming highly technical and expensive.I've seen great dollies made from old bike parts,strolers,shopping trollies,wheel chairs etc.The garbage dumps are overflowing with wasted resourses.All thats needed is a bit of creativity and imagination. Oh! isn't that what film making is all about?

January 28th, 2006, 07:43 PM	#7
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	The phrase "steerable" is a loaded gun, often the case with any film technology that is attacked for being ludicrously overpriced. In the case of the venerable doorway dolly, it's not a sophisticated piece of gear but know that it is designed so that the pneumatic wheels can be replaced with track wheels to ride on standard track, the platform is built low to the ground so that the minimum lens height is less than one with wheels entirely under the platform, etc. On film sets you are more likely to see doorway dollies (and their big brother, the Western dolly) hauling cable around the set than transporting a camera, although they are occasionally used with a full-on pneumatic dolly riding on top on uneven terrain like a golf course. Regarding steerability, if one was to bother to start building a dolly it would be smart to think about a more sophisticated steering mechanism than the simple two-wheel method employed by the doorway dolly. A crab dolly has the ability to switch between two and four wheel steering (where all four wheels will turn simultaneously which keeps the camera platform facing forwards while the dolly is moved sideways or in compound moves). Four wheel or crab steering is much more useful than two wheel for most types of shooting...in fact, two wheel is usually used only to set the angle of the dolly while you are lining up a shot. For a lightweight dolly used for DV shooting, it's easy enough to pick up one end and move it around, so my recommendation would be to focus on building a crab dolly, and if you want to get really sexy, figure out a linkage system where you can easily switch between modes (on high end dollies this is achieved with a gearshift-type lever). If you are a fan of curved track, keep in mind that unless you can manually unlink the wheels from each other you won't be able to ride on curves. A third mode known as roundy-round is available on some crab dollies, where the front and back wheels turn independently of each other to mimic the curve of the track. However it's probably better and easier to build a skatewheel setup for your dolly that allows for articulation where each set of wheels meets the axle, which will allow you to use curved track. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 29th, 2006, 03:03 AM	#8
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	I found a couple of links that folks might like which include the two things your talking about Charles. http://cinekinetic.com/other/wonkwheels.html and http://www.glideshot.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=477 I think the best option there is the glideshot wheels, there cheap and you can fit them on any board yourself. getting some track is easy enough, you could get a metal worker to weld up some sections of alluminium pipe or even plumming pipes. Andy __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

January 29th, 2006, 12:18 PM	#9
Alan Galbraith Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 98	http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37320

January 29th, 2006, 04:32 PM	#10
Bill Ball Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NEW JERSEY Posts: 216	Who has actually used one of those garden trucks (e.g. the Harbor Freight example) with success in making a movie? I have one and I tried it. The knobby tires create way too much vibration, even on the smoothest surface. The linkages are sloppy and cause the platform to jump around. The steering is far too slack and vague. And of course it cannot be tracked. They are fine for moving plants and cement around. I made a simple dolly with a piece of plywood and some inline skate wheels. Although not ideal, it is far better than one of those garden carts. Plus I can pick it up with one hand. I been pushed on it with my cam and tripod rolling on sheets of thin plywood. I plan to rebuild in a tracked version soon. Take your camera to your local home center and see if you can produce steady shots from a garden truck before buying one for this purpose.

January 29th, 2006, 07:16 PM	#11
Joe Barker Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Perth WA Australia Posts: 124	If you want to use a garden truck use one with solid tyres, the pneumatic ones make way too much noise. Also the handles and wheels can be shimmed to get rid of all that slop. I just built myself a pipe dolly that I can secure my Mannfrotto 525P tripod on, and still get plenty of hight adjustment. I used 8 skateboard wheels and made the frame so it can be dismantled for transporting. The dolly can run on a curved or circular track so long as the circumference is not too tight. I can also drop the dolly onto another frame with three larger caster wheels and use it like a Mannfrotto tripod dolly. The whole cost to make it was $70 in materials, and about 6 hours labour. It’s a simple rig but it does the job. Of coarse, as with any pipe dolly the pipes are always awkward parts to transport.

February 1st, 2006, 02:24 PM	#12
Daniel Riser Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vista, California Posts: 51	Where can I find the prices on the cinekinetics guy? Thanks, Dan __________________ "I'm making excellent progress cause' pretty soon when I sit on this couch I won't have to wear the lobster bib" - Woody Allen "Annie Hall"

February 1st, 2006, 08:16 PM	#13
Peter Wiley Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lewisburg PA Posts: 752	I once experimented with the garden cart solution. Long story short, the quality of the bearings in inexpensive carts is just not good enough to produce a stable, slient camera platform. The hardware to look at for building a doorway dolly-like knockoff is gokart hardware. Gokart wheels can be purchased with high quality bearings. They are not cheap, but they aren't all that expenseive and come close to what's used in the expensive dollys. A range of tyres is available including slicks. Also available via go kart hardware outlets is steering hardware (although I have not tried it in a dolly application). The place to go (in the U.S.) for the right kind of seat is a fishing boat outlet. Simple fishing boat seats work well as dolly seats and can be bolted right to the deck. I can't hunt up the links at the moment, but will if anyone is interested.