Reasonably Priced Sliders available now

Olof Ekbergh · January 24th, 2010, 08:17 PM

Charles,

I have been using different versions of dollies, sliders, cable cams, jibs and steadicams for 20 years or more.

There are lots of choices in making dynamic moves.

This very reasonable priced hardware, works very well and is very portable and fast to set up. It is not the end all system. But I find it very useful and cost effective. It is also very rugged. Ball bearings and sand don't get along well. This system pretty much cleans itself.

I don't find the drag objectionable, it sort of feels like a liquid head.

Are there better solutions. Of course. But do they fit everyones budget?

I would not make these or any of my other items if I did not think that they are great.

Just my nickel.

Charles Papert · January 24th, 2010, 08:33 PM

I look forward to trying your version Olof. What I do know is that while using this particular slider, three of us took turns doing slow back and forth slides during a series of interviews and it took a fantastic amount of effort for us to "make" the camera move smoothly--way too much friction going on. Maybe ours has an issue, not sure--but looking at the design, I doubt it. Who knows.

Brian Luce · January 27th, 2010, 12:23 PM

If a little bit of friction is what we require from a tripod head, why isn't also desired for a slider carriage? I haven't tried a completely free-sliding slider yet, but I'd imagine it'd feel and show every hestitation, tremble, or shake. A tripod head on a lubed ball bearing wouldn't work very well.

Charles Papert · January 27th, 2010, 07:10 PM

I probably should have been more specific about this--the best setup is a free-gliding assembly on bearings coupled with a dialable friction control.

To answer your question, consider that two different fluid heads could have a level of friction dialed in that is quantitatively equivalent (requires the same amount of force to drive at a specific rate) but could have a very different feel to the operator. A great fluid head allows you to ramp from zero to whatever speed smoothly and invisibly; a bad one will jump into motion as the resistance is overcome (a function of friction or stiction, I never remember which).

Similarly, a smoothly running slider with properly applied braking will allow you to achieve effortless starts and stops and maintain whatever consistent speed you desire. What I experienced with the particular slider in question was a really stuffy feeling action that required significant attention to deliver the desired effect--not at all effective with longer lenses as the starts and stops appeared bumpy.

So in a nutshell--there's good friction and bad friction!

Olof Ekbergh · January 27th, 2010, 08:38 PM

There are a few tricks to using these linear sliders from Igus.

First if the truck or carriage is not aligned properly, it can be knocked out of alignment in transport, though I find this to be rare.

Igus recommends an 11 lb downforce on the carriage when tightening the 5mm allen bolts (on the 16 series track) to align the 4 slides. I like to finger tighten all four first while pushing down on the carriage with about 10 lb force (my guess) check that the slider is sliding very freely, then tightening a little harder still with the downforce. If you just tighten them it can cause the torque of the allen screw to turn the sliders a little, this will cause extra friction.

If your slider seems really stiff, loosen all the allen screws, and try the slider with them loose. It will probably slide really freely. That is how it will slide when properly aligned. So now try tightening as I described above. If you get it right, it will slide as easily now as when all the screws were loose.

The other trick is to push on the slider at the base of the head just above the truck, don't pull it or push it with the handle on your head. You can still turn the head with your other hand as you are sliding. But the main push should be on the center line of the carriage. I sometimes do both with one arm, I use my elbow to turn the handle while my hand is on the center of the head moving the carriage.

I will have more tips on my website soon. And video showing real world shots with this system. It is not hard to set up and use, and once adjusted it will stay smooth for a long time. I have not adjusted my 6 footer in over a year. And it is still real smooth.

All my customers, or anyone interested in more info can call me for immediate help and advice. I usually answer the phone myself.

olof@westsideav.com
603.383.9283

Brian Luce · January 27th, 2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

So in a nutshell--there's good friction and bad friction!

What type of camera set up did you have on the slider you tested?

Brian Luce · January 27th, 2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

I like to finger tighten all four first while pushing down on the carriage with about 10 lb force (my guess) check that the slider is sliding very freely, then tightening a little harder still with the downforce.

How are you able to finger tighten allen screws? Mine are flush mount. You system isn't?

Olof Ekbergh · January 28th, 2010, 07:15 AM

Brian,

I have been using my oldest system for more than a year with an EX3. Initially with a Miller Solo 10 head, now I use a Manfrotto 701 because it has a flat bottom, with a 3/8" threaded hole.

I also have an EX1R and a Canon 5DmkII with lots of lenses from 17mm - 400mm. My favorite lens on the Canon for video are 17-40 f4, the 50 1.4 (very light), and the 70-200 f2.8 (this makes the camera as heavy or heavier than the EX3). I also have a couple relatively small Canons and Panasonics SD cams.

All of these work well on the slider system, if set up right. I usually have the EXcams set up with a NanoFlash as well.

What I mean by finger tight is, hold the 5mm allen wrench (I supply all the tools you need with my system) like a straw not by the angled part, or the T handle. Twirl it between two fingers and your thumb. Remember to push down on the middle of the carriage while you do this. Remember the carriage should slide as smoothly when screws are tightened as with them loose.

If you still can't get it to slide smoothly give me a call. I have a few more things to try.

Olof@westsideav.com
603.383.9283

Check my website for tips and sample footage, there will be a link on my homepage soon just for Slider information and ordering:
http://www.westsideav.com

Olof Ekbergh · January 28th, 2010, 03:44 PM

OK my slider web pages is now up:

Reasonable Priced Sliders ? Westside A V Studios

We are still finding out the best rates we can get for shipping. But the stock is here and there are photos and videos on the pages.

The pricing is on the website. I am still working on the online ordering part. And I will be updating the site with more photos and videos soon.

We are still offering a 10% discount for DVinfo members until the end of January. You have to email or call me to get this discount.

olof@westsideav.com
603.383.9283

D.J. Ammons · February 1st, 2010, 11:16 PM

Olof,

Are you still offering 10% off your prices? If so that would make your $305 one meter slider $274.50 correct? Do you have shipping charges figured out yet?

I saw several posts talking about friction and the amount of effort needed to move the camera on some sliders. What type bearings does your slider have and can you talk some about the amount of friction, smoothness of movement, etc?

Olof Ekbergh · February 2nd, 2010, 07:23 AM

D J,

Give me a call and I can describe the way to use this system. And we can discuss the discount. It did end yesterday. But I will be offering discounts on odd lengths, like 34" long instead of 36" etc.

All these Igus systems use the same bearings, they are quit ingenious, here is a link to their site:igus - Drylin W linear slide system

They run very smoothly even in dirty conditions. Yes there is some drag. And you have to push the camera at the carriage, not up high or out to the side, and your camera has to be balanced. I would not recommend the standard system for heave cameras 18lbs or more. I make heavier versions (longer carriage) for those cameras as well as wheel systems, that use a ladder for a rail. They will be on my website soon

There are lots of people that love this system, it is very inexpensive and works well if you take your time to learn how to effectively use it. I offer phone support and tips, to all my customers.

Brad Biggar · February 15th, 2010, 09:05 AM

Olof, do you have another email? I have been trying to send you one to place an order to olof@westsideav.com but they are always returned saying the recipients email is to full.

I could also call but would rather save the long distance :)

Olof Ekbergh · February 15th, 2010, 06:49 PM

Hi Brad,

That email usually works. I just tried the link, and I sent and received the email fine.

I get hundreds of emails every day.

I don't know what the problem is.

You could try my gmail accs:

olofekbergh@gmail.com or westsideav@gmail.com

Darrick Vanderwier · February 23rd, 2010, 07:37 PM

Olaf,
I am interested in one as well... What would shipping be to buffalo? Right near the Canadian border. I will pick it up there myself.
I will also e-mail you the address.
Thanks Darrick

Charles Newcomb · March 3rd, 2010, 03:49 PM

I bought one from Olof early last month and I love it... been kicking myself for not doing it sooner.

January 24th, 2010, 08:33 PM	#32
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	I look forward to trying your version Olof. What I do know is that while using this particular slider, three of us took turns doing slow back and forth slides during a series of interviews and it took a fantastic amount of effort for us to "make" the camera move smoothly--way too much friction going on. Maybe ours has an issue, not sure--but looking at the design, I doubt it. Who knows. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 27th, 2010, 07:10 PM	#34
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	I probably should have been more specific about this--the best setup is a free-gliding assembly on bearings coupled with a dialable friction control. To answer your question, consider that two different fluid heads could have a level of friction dialed in that is quantitatively equivalent (requires the same amount of force to drive at a specific rate) but could have a very different feel to the operator. A great fluid head allows you to ramp from zero to whatever speed smoothly and invisibly; a bad one will jump into motion as the resistance is overcome (a function of friction or stiction, I never remember which). Similarly, a smoothly running slider with properly applied braking will allow you to achieve effortless starts and stops and maintain whatever consistent speed you desire. What I experienced with the particular slider in question was a really stuffy feeling action that required significant attention to deliver the desired effect--not at all effective with longer lenses as the starts and stops appeared bumpy. So in a nutshell--there's good friction and bad friction! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 24th, 2010, 08:17 PM	#31
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Charles, I have been using different versions of dollies, sliders, cable cams, jibs and steadicams for 20 years or more. There are lots of choices in making dynamic moves. This very reasonable priced hardware, works very well and is very portable and fast to set up. It is not the end all system. But I find it very useful and cost effective. It is also very rugged. Ball bearings and sand don't get along well. This system pretty much cleans itself. I don't find the drag objectionable, it sort of feels like a liquid head. Are there better solutions. Of course. But do they fit everyones budget? I would not make these or any of my other items if I did not think that they are great. Just my nickel.

January 27th, 2010, 12:23 PM	#33
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	If a little bit of friction is what we require from a tripod head, why isn't also desired for a slider carriage? I haven't tried a completely free-sliding slider yet, but I'd imagine it'd feel and show every hestitation, tremble, or shake. A tripod head on a lubed ball bearing wouldn't work very well.

January 27th, 2010, 08:38 PM	#35
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	There are a few tricks to using these linear sliders from Igus. First if the truck or carriage is not aligned properly, it can be knocked out of alignment in transport, though I find this to be rare. Igus recommends an 11 lb downforce on the carriage when tightening the 5mm allen bolts (on the 16 series track) to align the 4 slides. I like to finger tighten all four first while pushing down on the carriage with about 10 lb force (my guess) check that the slider is sliding very freely, then tightening a little harder still with the downforce. If you just tighten them it can cause the torque of the allen screw to turn the sliders a little, this will cause extra friction. If your slider seems really stiff, loosen all the allen screws, and try the slider with them loose. It will probably slide really freely. That is how it will slide when properly aligned. So now try tightening as I described above. If you get it right, it will slide as easily now as when all the screws were loose. The other trick is to push on the slider at the base of the head just above the truck, don't pull it or push it with the handle on your head. You can still turn the head with your other hand as you are sliding. But the main push should be on the center line of the carriage. I sometimes do both with one arm, I use my elbow to turn the handle while my hand is on the center of the head moving the carriage. I will have more tips on my website soon. And video showing real world shots with this system. It is not hard to set up and use, and once adjusted it will stay smooth for a long time. I have not adjusted my 6 footer in over a year. And it is still real smooth. All my customers, or anyone interested in more info can call me for immediate help and advice. I usually answer the phone myself. olof@westsideav.com 603.383.9283

January 28th, 2010, 07:15 AM	#38
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Brian, I have been using my oldest system for more than a year with an EX3. Initially with a Miller Solo 10 head, now I use a Manfrotto 701 because it has a flat bottom, with a 3/8" threaded hole. I also have an EX1R and a Canon 5DmkII with lots of lenses from 17mm - 400mm. My favorite lens on the Canon for video are 17-40 f4, the 50 1.4 (very light), and the 70-200 f2.8 (this makes the camera as heavy or heavier than the EX3). I also have a couple relatively small Canons and Panasonics SD cams. All of these work well on the slider system, if set up right. I usually have the EXcams set up with a NanoFlash as well. What I mean by finger tight is, hold the 5mm allen wrench (I supply all the tools you need with my system) like a straw not by the angled part, or the T handle. Twirl it between two fingers and your thumb. Remember to push down on the middle of the carriage while you do this. Remember the carriage should slide as smoothly when screws are tightened as with them loose. If you still can't get it to slide smoothly give me a call. I have a few more things to try. Olof@westsideav.com 603.383.9283 Check my website for tips and sample footage, there will be a link on my homepage soon just for Slider information and ordering: http://www.westsideav.com

January 28th, 2010, 03:44 PM	#39
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	OK my slider web pages is now up: Reasonable Priced Sliders ? Westside A V Studios We are still finding out the best rates we can get for shipping. But the stock is here and there are photos and videos on the pages. The pricing is on the website. I am still working on the online ordering part. And I will be updating the site with more photos and videos soon. We are still offering a 10% discount for DVinfo members until the end of January. You have to email or call me to get this discount. olof@westsideav.com 603.383.9283

February 1st, 2010, 11:16 PM	#40
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	Olof, Are you still offering 10% off your prices? If so that would make your $305 one meter slider $274.50 correct? Do you have shipping charges figured out yet? I saw several posts talking about friction and the amount of effort needed to move the camera on some sliders. What type bearings does your slider have and can you talk some about the amount of friction, smoothness of movement, etc?

February 2nd, 2010, 07:23 AM	#41
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	D J, Give me a call and I can describe the way to use this system. And we can discuss the discount. It did end yesterday. But I will be offering discounts on odd lengths, like 34" long instead of 36" etc. All these Igus systems use the same bearings, they are quit ingenious, here is a link to their site:igus - Drylin W linear slide system They run very smoothly even in dirty conditions. Yes there is some drag. And you have to push the camera at the carriage, not up high or out to the side, and your camera has to be balanced. I would not recommend the standard system for heave cameras 18lbs or more. I make heavier versions (longer carriage) for those cameras as well as wheel systems, that use a ladder for a rail. They will be on my website soon There are lots of people that love this system, it is very inexpensive and works well if you take your time to learn how to effectively use it. I offer phone support and tips, to all my customers.

February 15th, 2010, 09:05 AM	#42
Brad Biggar Tourist Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Posts: 2	Olof, do you have another email? I have been trying to send you one to place an order to olof@westsideav.com but they are always returned saying the recipients email is to full. I could also call but would rather save the long distance :)

February 15th, 2010, 06:49 PM	#43
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Hi Brad, That email usually works. I just tried the link, and I sent and received the email fine. I get hundreds of emails every day. I don't know what the problem is. You could try my gmail accs: olofekbergh@gmail.com or westsideav@gmail.com

February 23rd, 2010, 07:37 PM	#44
Darrick Vanderwier Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: St. Catharines Ontario Posts: 69	Olaf, I am interested in one as well... What would shipping be to buffalo? Right near the Canadian border. I will pick it up there myself. I will also e-mail you the address. Thanks Darrick

March 3rd, 2010, 03:49 PM	#45
Charles Newcomb Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salida, Colorado Posts: 561	I bought one from Olof early last month and I love it... been kicking myself for not doing it sooner.