Calling all experts-Playback is inconsistent between original and test disc at DVinfo.net

Kevin Kocak · December 22nd, 2005, 09:07 AM

Using DVDSP3 here. I have posted on the Apple forum but have gotten no help and am getting desparate. #1 is from yesterday and #2 is what I have discovered since then.
I have created a DVD and just received the test disc. Before we sent it off to replication when we tested the DVD both in the simulator and the Apple DVD player everything worked as it should. We couldn't burn a disc ourselves because it was a DVD-9.
So we have set button highlight markers so that when a commercial is playing you can hit enter and then jump to a longer commercial and then jump back to the original program.
The problem is we can't pause the video in either one of those sections. The first commercial is on the main track and no user functions are disabled. The second part that you jump to is on another track where the ability to scan and chapter both forwards and backwards IS disabled... Nothing else.
Well when we watch the test disc from replication we can't pause in either of those sections.
I checked the project in DVDSP and everything is as it should be. When I simulate it I can pause. When I play the Video TS folder on the DVD player I can pause. SO why is the test disc different?
I am assuming this is a problem on the DVDSP end and not on the replicator's part. So what do I do?
So after doing some investigating I have discovered some more issues. The disc behaves differently with different problems on EVERY DVD player we play it on.
For instance, on my player at home, the button highlights don't work until about half way through the disc. So out of the 13 commercials with button highlights, they don't start working until the 7th one. Also, when they do start working they don't work for the entire portion of the commercial.
On other players they all work perfectly but you can't pause. I also had one chapter where as soon as you got to beginning it just jumps to the next chapter after the button highlight, not allowing you to see the commercial. But, if you hit chapter forward or back you can access that chapter.
On other players this does not happen.
So why are there so many inconsistencies? Has anyone had any experiences with anything like this? I'm really at a loss here.

December 22nd, 2005, 11:05 AM

How did you give the disc to the replicators ? What format was it on ?

Kevin Kocak · December 22nd, 2005, 11:51 AM

Thanks Randy- I finally got a similar response over on the Apple forum so I'll post those here as well-
* how you did what you did in DVDSP
I'm not sure what you mean... Do you mean in reference to buttons or the overall build? I basically have all the assets on a track. I placed my markers. The markers at the head of commercials I marked as button highlights and chapter markers. I created my button and then assigned a target- which was another story on another track. I used stories to accomplish my playpaths. There are several.

* how you got your build to your replicator (DLT? hard drive? DVD-ROM? other?)
WE delivered on a DLT. Its a dual layer disc (DVD-9)

* how they replicated it (they gave you a replicated test disc and not some burned DVD-R, right?)
The test disc came from a glass master. They sent us 17- all of them behave the same
* what players you're testing on
Basically I gave one to everyone in the office. A total of about 10 or so. All 10 behaved differently. We only had 1 that played perfectly. For others some buttons over vid worked half the time. But different commercials worked for different people.
We spoke to our replicator and they said there is absolutely no way it is a problem on their end. They actually used the word IMPOSSIBLE (yes, in all caps).
What I don't understand is how the playability can vary THAT MUCH. A glitch is one thing. I can understand some players choking or something of that nature. What I don't understand is how if I have 10 pieces of video with buttons, how all 10 can work on 1 player. 5 Can work on another player. A different 5 on a 3rd player. Or even on a fourth player, the button only works for the first 10 seconds.
And it plays perfectly both from the simulator and when played from the Video_TS folder on my DVD player in the MAC.
Thanks fo rthe response and I hope that helped shedd some light.

Dan Euritt · December 22nd, 2005, 10:07 PM

i take it that the 10 people in the office who received test discs were running 'em on standalone desktop dvd players, not computers?

December 22nd, 2005, 10:22 PM

This has got me baffled.. The only thing i can think of is check your story setups.. Im not sure off the top of my head but do stories have different button restrictions to the default setup for each track ? Maybe thats something, it still doesnt explain why it works on your compile on your computer and not as a test disk.. And also why its different across every other dvd player..

Some other things that come to mind... Are you sure you arent compiling a different version to DLT than the one you tested on your computer.. Sorry, i know thats a dumb question but sometimes things slip past.. Other than that i would talk to another replicator and see what they say, see if you can get them to check out your project and guarantee the result..

Im still suspicious of your original replicators procedure.. Ive seen people say impossible in captial before, its not hard to press caps lock! See if you can burn it onto a dual layer blank and test that way, if that works its a pretty safe bet its something at the replicators end..

Randy Harris · December 22nd, 2005, 10:43 PM

I work in replication for a major replicator. We had a simular problem this year, reflectivity was off a bit. There could possibility of the problem in replication. The stamper is problably good. There are many things that can happen in replication. You would probably want send the disks back and have them checked. A good QC check should reveal something.

December 23rd, 2005, 02:08 AM

If you find out its some reflectivity thing (which is what it sounds like given all the inconsistencies).. Call the replicator up and say you expect the job free, see what they say.. If they were arrogant that it wasnt their fault to begin with and youve spent a lot of time worrying and running.. Then i think you deserve compensation!

Kevin Kocak · December 23rd, 2005, 08:12 AM

Thanks for the responses guys- Here's the latest and greatest.
The replicator checked everything on their end and stands by their claim that it is an authoring issue.
I have someone helping me remotely from England via email. He turned me on to a program called DVDAfterEdit. I downloaded the demo and ran a check on my Video_TS folder. It told me I had 18 button errors. It was late and I haven't counted yet to cinfirm but that sounds just about like how many I have.
So now he is looking at the a lot of the coding and other stuff that looks like Greek to me, to see if their are any other issues.
So I guess the error is on my end. Its just really strange that it can function properly in one place and not others.
To answer some of the questions you guys asked-
Yes the test discs I gave out were played either on stand alone DVD players or computers. Oddly enough, the ones played on a computer funtioned perfectly. It was the set top players that were having issues. And one set top player actually played the disc perfectly as well.
Go figure- Its really a dark art, this authoring thing.
SO I will keep you guys posted- Right now I am rebuilding my project, replacing the video assets with stills so I can email it to my friend and he can have a look at it.
Thanks again

Dan Euritt · December 24th, 2005, 05:39 PM

in general, you should not use computer dvd software players to evaluate dvd's with.

one possible exception might be here, because it's designed to troubleshoot dvd issues: http://www.mmbforums.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9614

ymmv, tho... i used an older version of it, with not much success, but maybe it's improved since then.

December 22nd, 2005, 09:07 AM	#1
Kevin Kocak Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 149	Calling all experts-Playback is inconsistent between original and test disc Using DVDSP3 here. I have posted on the Apple forum but have gotten no help and am getting desparate. #1 is from yesterday and #2 is what I have discovered since then. I have created a DVD and just received the test disc. Before we sent it off to replication when we tested the DVD both in the simulator and the Apple DVD player everything worked as it should. We couldn't burn a disc ourselves because it was a DVD-9. So we have set button highlight markers so that when a commercial is playing you can hit enter and then jump to a longer commercial and then jump back to the original program. The problem is we can't pause the video in either one of those sections. The first commercial is on the main track and no user functions are disabled. The second part that you jump to is on another track where the ability to scan and chapter both forwards and backwards IS disabled... Nothing else. Well when we watch the test disc from replication we can't pause in either of those sections. I checked the project in DVDSP and everything is as it should be. When I simulate it I can pause. When I play the Video TS folder on the DVD player I can pause. SO why is the test disc different? I am assuming this is a problem on the DVDSP end and not on the replicator's part. So what do I do? So after doing some investigating I have discovered some more issues. The disc behaves differently with different problems on EVERY DVD player we play it on. For instance, on my player at home, the button highlights don't work until about half way through the disc. So out of the 13 commercials with button highlights, they don't start working until the 7th one. Also, when they do start working they don't work for the entire portion of the commercial. On other players they all work perfectly but you can't pause. I also had one chapter where as soon as you got to beginning it just jumps to the next chapter after the button highlight, not allowing you to see the commercial. But, if you hit chapter forward or back you can access that chapter. On other players this does not happen. So why are there so many inconsistencies? Has anyone had any experiences with anything like this? I'm really at a loss here.

December 22nd, 2005, 11:05 AM	#2
Guest Posts: n/a	How did you give the disc to the replicators ? What format was it on ?

December 22nd, 2005, 11:51 AM	#3
Kevin Kocak Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 149	Thanks Randy- I finally got a similar response over on the Apple forum so I'll post those here as well- * how you did what you did in DVDSP I'm not sure what you mean... Do you mean in reference to buttons or the overall build? I basically have all the assets on a track. I placed my markers. The markers at the head of commercials I marked as button highlights and chapter markers. I created my button and then assigned a target- which was another story on another track. I used stories to accomplish my playpaths. There are several. * how you got your build to your replicator (DLT? hard drive? DVD-ROM? other?) WE delivered on a DLT. Its a dual layer disc (DVD-9) * how they replicated it (they gave you a replicated test disc and not some burned DVD-R, right?) The test disc came from a glass master. They sent us 17- all of them behave the same * what players you're testing on Basically I gave one to everyone in the office. A total of about 10 or so. All 10 behaved differently. We only had 1 that played perfectly. For others some buttons over vid worked half the time. But different commercials worked for different people. We spoke to our replicator and they said there is absolutely no way it is a problem on their end. They actually used the word IMPOSSIBLE (yes, in all caps). What I don't understand is how the playability can vary THAT MUCH. A glitch is one thing. I can understand some players choking or something of that nature. What I don't understand is how if I have 10 pieces of video with buttons, how all 10 can work on 1 player. 5 Can work on another player. A different 5 on a 3rd player. Or even on a fourth player, the button only works for the first 10 seconds. And it plays perfectly both from the simulator and when played from the Video_TS folder on my DVD player in the MAC. Thanks fo rthe response and I hope that helped shedd some light.

December 22nd, 2005, 10:07 PM	#4
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i take it that the 10 people in the office who received test discs were running 'em on standalone desktop dvd players, not computers?

December 22nd, 2005, 10:22 PM	#5
Guest Posts: n/a	This has got me baffled.. The only thing i can think of is check your story setups.. Im not sure off the top of my head but do stories have different button restrictions to the default setup for each track ? Maybe thats something, it still doesnt explain why it works on your compile on your computer and not as a test disk.. And also why its different across every other dvd player.. Some other things that come to mind... Are you sure you arent compiling a different version to DLT than the one you tested on your computer.. Sorry, i know thats a dumb question but sometimes things slip past.. Other than that i would talk to another replicator and see what they say, see if you can get them to check out your project and guarantee the result.. Im still suspicious of your original replicators procedure.. Ive seen people say impossible in captial before, its not hard to press caps lock! See if you can burn it onto a dual layer blank and test that way, if that works its a pretty safe bet its something at the replicators end..

December 22nd, 2005, 10:43 PM	#6
Randy Harris New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lithonia, Ga Posts: 11	I work in replication for a major replicator. We had a simular problem this year, reflectivity was off a bit. There could possibility of the problem in replication. The stamper is problably good. There are many things that can happen in replication. You would probably want send the disks back and have them checked. A good QC check should reveal something.

December 23rd, 2005, 02:08 AM	#7
Guest Posts: n/a	If you find out its some reflectivity thing (which is what it sounds like given all the inconsistencies).. Call the replicator up and say you expect the job free, see what they say.. If they were arrogant that it wasnt their fault to begin with and youve spent a lot of time worrying and running.. Then i think you deserve compensation!

December 23rd, 2005, 08:12 AM	#8
Kevin Kocak Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 149	Thanks for the responses guys- Here's the latest and greatest. The replicator checked everything on their end and stands by their claim that it is an authoring issue. I have someone helping me remotely from England via email. He turned me on to a program called DVDAfterEdit. I downloaded the demo and ran a check on my Video_TS folder. It told me I had 18 button errors. It was late and I haven't counted yet to cinfirm but that sounds just about like how many I have. So now he is looking at the a lot of the coding and other stuff that looks like Greek to me, to see if their are any other issues. So I guess the error is on my end. Its just really strange that it can function properly in one place and not others. To answer some of the questions you guys asked- Yes the test discs I gave out were played either on stand alone DVD players or computers. Oddly enough, the ones played on a computer funtioned perfectly. It was the set top players that were having issues. And one set top player actually played the disc perfectly as well. Go figure- Its really a dark art, this authoring thing. SO I will keep you guys posted- Right now I am rebuilding my project, replacing the video assets with stills so I can email it to my friend and he can have a look at it. Thanks again

December 24th, 2005, 05:39 PM	#9
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	in general, you should not use computer dvd software players to evaluate dvd's with. one possible exception might be here, because it's designed to troubleshoot dvd issues: http://www.mmbforums.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9614 ymmv, tho... i used an older version of it, with not much success, but maybe it's improved since then.