See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. at DVinfo.net

John McCully · October 31st, 2017, 10:30 PM

Sony shares soar to nine-year high after forecast of record profit | Reuters

"Sony Corp's logo is seen at its news conference in Tokyo, Japan November 1, 2017. REUTERS/Kim Kyung-Hoon

Under Chief Executive Kazuo Hirai, Sony has streamlined unprofitable electronics businesses and capitalized on the spread of smartphones with its image sensors whilst retaining a living-room presence with its consoles."

No mention of 'Cybershot' and certainly not to mention 'XDCAM'. Sensor sales is where it's at. What's the bet the imaging division is sold off before the end of the 2018 financial year! Which begs the question who on earth would want it?

Cliff Totten · November 1st, 2017, 05:21 AM

Nah,....Sony's Alpha and XDCAM brands might not be "hugely" sucessful in terms of the entire company portfolio but I strongly doubt they "lose" money. Im sure they are at least modestly profitable for Sony.

Plus, Sony cameras are an enormous source of pride for the company too. They might cut back elements to increase profits even more but Im very sure Sony will not disband it, especially if its not losing money.

Panasonic is going through the same thing with its camera division.

John McCully · November 1st, 2017, 12:31 PM

You may well be correct, Cliff; my crystal ball is far from perfect. I do get the impression that for Kazuo Hirai profit comes a hugely long way ahead of pride and just a little modest profit might be judged to not cut the mustard, may not meet his seemingly rigorous profit criteria.

I agree, they won’t disband the division; that would be foolish. My guess is initially a joint venture with a suitable partner followed in due course by selling their stake. Sony brand cams are not about to disappear from the shelves overnight, is my guess.

The key take home for me with this announcement is that Mr. Hirai has turned the ship around, in spades, and that will strengthen his hand enormously in calling the shots when it comes to cutting deeper, upping the pace, continuing with his relentless pursuit of shareholder satisfying profit margins. And happy shareholders, after all is said and done, is the bottom line with customer satisfaction coming a ‘talked up’ distant second.

He has the wind at his back, and good on him.

Cliff Totten · November 1st, 2017, 01:32 PM

Well?....we dont have access to Handycam, Alpha, XDCAM and CineAlta profit and loss numbers. Is this a truely profitable area of the company? Are they bringing money into Sony or are they burning money for the company?

After all the profit and lose is calculated, even if this division is bringing in a small profit of 100 million, it would still a productive area of the company.

I do also know that "Kaz" himself is a MASSIVE lover of Sony cameras. He has a deep, personal love of cameras and the photography industry. As a Japanese company with a strong camera culture, this business sector is an important one too.

Now, yes...if the camera division is dead weight, than yes,...they will dump it. But, Sony just passed Nikon in US sales and have risen to #2 behind Canon. I dont know for sure but I think Sony's camera sales are strong and they are only getting stronger these days. (At least in the under $10k market)

Without the actual profit and loss numbers in front of us, we can only guess.

Sony cameras are also doing allot to boost the Sony brand "halo" too.

I believe that this division only needs to pull its own weight and add a little bit extra every year to the overall corporation. If it can reliably to that, it's certainly very much worth having as long as it does pay for itself and a little more.

How would Sony gain anything by dumping a high profile "profitable" division of its company?

Douglas Call · November 10th, 2017, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Nah,....Sony's Alpha and XDCAM brands might not be "hugely" sucessful in terms of the entire company portfolio but I strongly doubt they "lose" money. Im sure they are at least modestly profitable for Sony.

Here is the actual answer:
Sony - Quarterly Securities Report - For the three months ended September 30, 2017:
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/lib...ort_2017Q2.pdf
Sony is making money with it's imaging division thank you very much.

Jack Zhang · November 11th, 2017, 10:14 AM

I still feel like they're being ultra conservative ASIC-wise to bump up yields. If you look at an ARM processor nowadays to the specialized encoding ASICs Sony currently uses, ARM outperforms those ASICs now. I think Sony is caring more about volume of cheap processing logic rather than improving the speed of those ASICs. They've literally stopped development of low power 4K 60p encoder chips cause 1. It would cannibalize FS7 sales, and 2. 4K 30p encoder chips are higher in volume, so it makes more sense to implement cameras with cheaper chips.

This is literally what is frustrating me about Sony's current direction... volume over innovation. Panasonic took up the slack, but look at where the lens manufacturers are heading... They're using EF and E-Mount mostly now, with MFT not even on their radar. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Cliff Totten · November 12th, 2017, 08:43 AM

What is Panasonic doing with their GH5?

4k 60p processing
4k 10bit processing
6k collection and processing in 4:3, 5k in 16x9
400mbp/s All-I CODEC
2 UHS-II high speed SDXC slots.

All of this using a Sony IMX272 sensor that is clocked prettty damn fast with no significant rolling shutter.

And......ZERO OVER HEATING PROBLEM!

What does Panasonic know that Sony doesnt?

John McCully · November 12th, 2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

What does Panasonic know that Sony doesnt?

Perhaps not a lot. Perhaps they agreed that Sony would manufacture the sensor for the GH5 (and now the G9) and Panasonic could have the consumer/prosumer
market segment. That way they both make an acceptable level of profit (‘acceptable level’ being the key concept).

Ryan Douthit · November 14th, 2017, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

What is Panasonic doing with their GH5?

4k 60p processing
4k 10bit processing
6k collection and processing in 4:3, 5k in 16x9
400mbp/s All-I CODEC
2 UHS-II high speed SDXC slots.

All of this using a Sony IMX272 sensor that is clocked prettty damn fast with no significant rolling shutter.

And......ZERO OVER HEATING PROBLEM!

What does Panasonic know that Sony doesnt?

Panasonic is using a sensor that is minuscule compared to Sony's FF cameras (even their APS-C cameras are quite large by comparison). How is this even a discussion? The engineering difference is substantial.

Cliff Totten · November 14th, 2017, 01:43 PM

For me, its not the size of the sensor, it what that sensor/camera can do for me in the end.

I also own an A7S-II and over the last few months, the GH5 is going with me more and more while the A7S-II is staying behind in the safe. Yes...I still love my A7S-II dearly but when low light is not needed, the GH5's 10bit Vlog is superb.

I shot 8 days in Yellowstone this year. I chose my GH5 and got 10bit 5k sampled footage that the A7S-II could never give me. The GH5 blew my mind went I went into post.

So yeah....Im not loyal to "sensor" size....I'm loyal to "end result quality". If all you need is 1600 ISO or lower, the GH5 is a way better camera. If you need more ISO, the A7S-II is a way better camera.

October 31st, 2017, 10:30 PM	#1
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. Sony shares soar to nine-year high after forecast of record profit \| Reuters "Sony Corp's logo is seen at its news conference in Tokyo, Japan November 1, 2017. REUTERS/Kim Kyung-Hoon Under Chief Executive Kazuo Hirai, Sony has streamlined unprofitable electronics businesses and capitalized on the spread of smartphones with its image sensors whilst retaining a living-room presence with its consoles." No mention of 'Cybershot' and certainly not to mention 'XDCAM'. Sensor sales is where it's at. What's the bet the imaging division is sold off before the end of the 2018 financial year! Which begs the question who on earth would want it?

November 1st, 2017, 12:31 PM	#3
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. You may well be correct, Cliff; my crystal ball is far from perfect. I do get the impression that for Kazuo Hirai profit comes a hugely long way ahead of pride and just a little modest profit might be judged to not cut the mustard, may not meet his seemingly rigorous profit criteria. I agree, they won’t disband the division; that would be foolish. My guess is initially a joint venture with a suitable partner followed in due course by selling their stake. Sony brand cams are not about to disappear from the shelves overnight, is my guess. The key take home for me with this announcement is that Mr. Hirai has turned the ship around, in spades, and that will strengthen his hand enormously in calling the shots when it comes to cutting deeper, upping the pace, continuing with his relentless pursuit of shareholder satisfying profit margins. And happy shareholders, after all is said and done, is the bottom line with customer satisfaction coming a ‘talked up’ distant second. He has the wind at his back, and good on him.

November 1st, 2017, 01:32 PM	#4
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. Well?....we dont have access to Handycam, Alpha, XDCAM and CineAlta profit and loss numbers. Is this a truely profitable area of the company? Are they bringing money into Sony or are they burning money for the company? After all the profit and lose is calculated, even if this division is bringing in a small profit of 100 million, it would still a productive area of the company. I do also know that "Kaz" himself is a MASSIVE lover of Sony cameras. He has a deep, personal love of cameras and the photography industry. As a Japanese company with a strong camera culture, this business sector is an important one too. Now, yes...if the camera division is dead weight, than yes,...they will dump it. But, Sony just passed Nikon in US sales and have risen to #2 behind Canon. I dont know for sure but I think Sony's camera sales are strong and they are only getting stronger these days. (At least in the under $10k market) Without the actual profit and loss numbers in front of us, we can only guess. Sony cameras are also doing allot to boost the Sony brand "halo" too. I believe that this division only needs to pull its own weight and add a little bit extra every year to the overall corporation. If it can reliably to that, it's certainly very much worth having as long as it does pay for itself and a little more. How would Sony gain anything by dumping a high profile "profitable" division of its company? Last edited by Cliff Totten; November 2nd, 2017 at 06:20 AM.

November 11th, 2017, 10:14 AM	#6
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. I still feel like they're being ultra conservative ASIC-wise to bump up yields. If you look at an ARM processor nowadays to the specialized encoding ASICs Sony currently uses, ARM outperforms those ASICs now. I think Sony is caring more about volume of cheap processing logic rather than improving the speed of those ASICs. They've literally stopped development of low power 4K 60p encoder chips cause 1. It would cannibalize FS7 sales, and 2. 4K 30p encoder chips are higher in volume, so it makes more sense to implement cameras with cheaper chips. This is literally what is frustrating me about Sony's current direction... volume over innovation. Panasonic took up the slack, but look at where the lens manufacturers are heading... They're using EF and E-Mount mostly now, with MFT not even on their radar. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

November 12th, 2017, 08:43 AM	#7
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. What is Panasonic doing with their GH5? 4k 60p processing 4k 10bit processing 6k collection and processing in 4:3, 5k in 16x9 400mbp/s All-I CODEC 2 UHS-II high speed SDXC slots. All of this using a Sony IMX272 sensor that is clocked prettty damn fast with no significant rolling shutter. And......ZERO OVER HEATING PROBLEM! What does Panasonic know that Sony doesnt?

November 1st, 2017, 05:21 AM	#2
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. Nah,....Sony's Alpha and XDCAM brands might not be "hugely" sucessful in terms of the entire company portfolio but I strongly doubt they "lose" money. Im sure they are at least modestly profitable for Sony. Plus, Sony cameras are an enormous source of pride for the company too. They might cut back elements to increase profits even more but Im very sure Sony will not disband it, especially if its not losing money. Panasonic is going through the same thing with its camera division.

November 14th, 2017, 01:43 PM	#10
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: See ya later, Sony Imaging Division. For me, its not the size of the sensor, it what that sensor/camera can do for me in the end. I also own an A7S-II and over the last few months, the GH5 is going with me more and more while the A7S-II is staying behind in the safe. Yes...I still love my A7S-II dearly but when low light is not needed, the GH5's 10bit Vlog is superb. I shot 8 days in Yellowstone this year. I chose my GH5 and got 10bit 5k sampled footage that the A7S-II could never give me. The GH5 blew my mind went I went into post. So yeah....Im not loyal to "sensor" size....I'm loyal to "end result quality". If all you need is 1600 ISO or lower, the GH5 is a way better camera. If you need more ISO, the A7S-II is a way better camera.