18 October - New Camera from Sony.

[Danilo Del Tufo]

New camera announcement from Sony at NAB Show NY, October 18-19. <<We’ll be introducing a new camera you won’t want to miss>>. Maybe an FS5 Mark II?

LINK: Sony | Showcase

[Ryan Douthit]

I'm hoping for an A9s: 6k, full-frame, 10 bit and dual U-II cards.

[Jack Zhang]

Don't get too excited. If it's below the FS7 it will not have 4K 60p.

[Cliff Totten]

There are a couple of games Sony could play to protect the FS7.

We could see 10bit 30p internally.
We could see 10bit 60p over HDMI only.

If the FS5-II is going to have the typical 3 year shelf life, it needs to have 4k and HLG. In order to do this "properly", it needs 10bit 4k in some way.

I REALLY, REALLY,.....REALLY hope Sony moves away from that FS700 1:1 readout image sensor. I REALLY hope they employ a 16×9 (or 17x9) A6500 generation sensor. An EXMOR stacked RS model with 6k readout but clocked higher than an A6500 to straighten up the skew. It will run hotter but the current FS5 body is fan cooled.

I was so sick and tired of seeing my A6300 outresolve and beat the crap out of my FS5 in low light that I sold my FS5.

If they do a 6k readout than the FS700, FS7, FS5 raw protocol will change significantly. This might have been the reason why they kept using that sensor for so many years.

Hell, Im OK with this new model not having raw at all as long as they give us 6k sampling and 30p 10bit.

If it uses the same FS700 sensor again with 1:1 readout, there is no chance in Hell that I'll buy it. Im not buying any more "4k" cameras that are made up of a green channel that is 1/2 4k resolution and 1/4 resolution on the red & blue channels.

CT

[Danilo Del Tufo]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

If the FS5-II is going to have the typical 3 year shelf life, it needs to have 4k and HLG. In order to do this "properly", it needs 10bit 4k in some way.

What worries me most about the FS5 is that the camera is on the market from 2015, so the life cycle is not completed, it will be next year (2018). I really need an FS5 with updated specs and can't wait till next year. EVA1 seems appealing but the lack of autofocus and the need of EVF will transform an handled camera into a shoulder mount camera!

[Alex Anderson]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

There are a couple of games Sony could play to protect the FS7.
If it uses the same FS700 sensor again with 1:1 readout, there is no chance in Hell that I'll buy it. Im not buying any more "4k" cameras that are made up of a green channel that is 1/2 4k resolution and 1/4 resolution on the red & blue channels.
CT

Hello Cliff. I don't quite follow. Could you or anyone explain to me which cameras are using 1/2 4k res for G and 1/4 res for R&B channels?

[Danilo Del Tufo]

According to the latest news the camera is the HXC-F80, designed for sports broadcasting. No FS5 MK II !

Link to original article : https://www.sportsvideo.org/2017/10/...studio-camera/

[Andy Wilkinson]

Yes, saw that. Well at least I won't need to get my credit card out just yet/can carry on enjoying the images my FS5 currently gives me without too much "camera envy" (The F80 is not the sort of camera I need).

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson

Hello Cliff. I don't quite follow. Could you or anyone explain to me which are using 1/2 4k res for G and 1/4 res for R&B channels?

Any and all cameras that uses a standard RGGB bayer sensor with only an effective resolution of 8.3 megapixels for 4k UHD, like, Sony FS7, FS5, F5, Canon C200, C300 and many others.

Remember, half of all the pixels on any RGGB sensor are green with the other half divided into red and blue. If you only have an 8 megapixel sensor, 4 million are green with 2 million red and 2 million blue.

Sony's Alpha-style 6k readout has a green channel that is full 100% raster 4k UHD and has red and blue channels at 1/2 resolution instead of 1/4 resolution.

Here is a 6k over sample vs. 1:1 readout between the A6300 and FS5. Same lens, same fstop, same camera settings on both with the exception of white balance. No sharpening or any other work applied.

SONY FS5 vs. A6300 - "IMAGE SENSOR" Test. - YouTube

[Alex Anderson]

Thanks Cliff. I now understand.

[Cary Knoop]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

If the FS5-II is going to have the typical 3 year shelf life, it needs to have 4k and HLG. In order to do this "properly", it needs 10bit 4k in some way.

Apart form the fact that FS5 already has HLG why does it need that, it already has log.

[Cliff Totten]

Agreed. Log is the ultimate "HLG". But,....well? For people that dont want to color grade and maintain their HLG curve through the editing process to master. Then, yeah HLG is ok for that.

I really believe 10bit 4k is needed on the FS5-II. I know Sony want's to protect the FS7's 60p 4k but damn....just give me 4k 30p 10bit and I will be super happy.

I only need two things to pre-order and FS5-II.

1.) 1.5 - 2x UHD oversampled sensor. (would LOVE the A6500's full 6k readout but in 30p, not 24p)
2.) 30p 10bit 4k. (Even if they only enable the HDMI with this as I'm happy to record 10bit 4k externally)

That's it. Those two things and I'm all in again. (I owned the FS5 for about 6 months before I sold it)

CT

[Mark Rosenzweig]

I think here is a lot of confusion about HLG.

HLG is a delivery format for HDR only. Any claim that an HLG-shot video looks ok in SDR (on REC709 screens) is false. Presumably if one is going to shoot for HDR, it is very convenient. But it does not maximize the DR the sensor is capable of. From log you can go to HLG for output, or REC709, or HDR10. I do not see why anyone would ever shoot in HLG. What am I missing (I have the option to shoot in HLG, and I have made HDR videos from 10bit 422 log (PQ), so this is not sour grapes)?

[Cliff Totten]

If someone has log on their camera than that is the ultimate gamma to shoot in. You will need to prep it for HLG in post if that is your goal.

The Sony Z150 today only offers HLG and has no log. So HLG is the best DR that you can get for that.

Call me crazy, but I actually like the HLG curve in a 709 space. With a little tweaking of the mids, you get "smooth" toned highlights that dont look bad in 709.

But no arguments, I think of HLG as 'half log" because below 60 or 70, its rec709. If you got full log, no need for HLG, really. With the only possible argument that tweaking HLG to 709 800% "could" be easier on an 8bit CODEC than conforming log to 709 800% in 8bit SLog-2.

It seems to me that HLG only requires "light" color curves and contrast grading with no LUT really necessary. Full log will need more stretching for 709.

I dunno....my only HLG shots today are about 1.5 hours of clips of my pets in the house in front of bright windows and backyard play with shady trees and white clouds!

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

I think here is a lot of confusion about HLG.

HLG is a delivery format for HDR only. Any claim that an HLG-shot video looks ok in SDR (on REC709 screens) is false. Presumably if one is going to shoot for HDR, it is very convenient. But it does not maximize the DR the sensor is capable of. From log you can go to HLG for output, or REC709, or HDR10. I do not see why anyone would ever shoot in HLG. What am I missing (I have the option to shoot in HLG, and I have made HDR videos from 10bit 422 log (PQ), so this is not sour grapes)?

I think the value in HLG is to deliver one file for SDR and HDR TV's. That is exactly why BBC and NHK developed it. It has the value of shooting and showing immediately with no grading. Looking at the gamma curve it is not very different to the Canon 800% curve. If you want to grade and create a look of any type then Log is the way to go. If you want to shoot an event and archive the file in HDR then I think HLG has this in its favour and why I want to shoot in HLG. Did you see this from Alistair

Alistair Chapman - What is Hybrid Log Gamma HLG (Sony FS5) - YouTube