New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B

[Hakob Hakobyan]

Correct me if I am wrong but we do get clean 10 bit 4:2:2 through hdmi for 1080P right?
It's just that we only get 8 bit 4:2:2 in 4K through hdmi.

I am pretty confident that Canon will fix all these concerns in the formware update that's coming, it's very logical of them to do that.
They are delaying giving that codecs to C200 until C300 replacement is released not to kill that line.

Once C300 mkiii is released, they will give C200 10 bit 4:2:2 I am sure.

[Gary Huff]

The C200 is 8-bit only unless you are shooting raw.

[Danilo Del Tufo]

Recently I've tested the camera in a presentation in Italy. I've found quite heavy to hold with one hand with the kit lens Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM. The camera needs to be hold with two hands to be stabilized. Does anyone else find the camera heavy? I think with that zoom lens is more than 6.6 lbs (about 3.0 kg).

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Danilo Del Tufo

The camera needs to be hold with two hands to be stabilized. Does anyone else find the camera heavy?

What camera are you using that you can hold with one hand? Outside of small Handycams, I have never owned a camera that only needed one hand.

[Danilo Del Tufo]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

What camera are you using that you can hold with one hand? Outside of small Handycams, I have never owned a camera that only needed one hand.

I'm still using my old HPX170 with just one hand, as alternative maybe the Sony FS5 is a better camera to work with (I've read online that is very lightweight), I'm interested about EOS C200 but considering this problem I hope Sony will make a FS5 Mark II soon.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Danilo Del Tufo

I'm still using my old HPX170 with just one hand

I also had an HPX170 back in the day and did not find footage acceptable shot with one hand. It was okay in a pinch, but definitely not a "feature" of that camera.

[Barry Goyette]

Originally Posted by Hakob Hakobyan

Correct me if I am wrong but we do get clean 10 bit 4:2:2 through hdmi for 1080P right?
It's just that we only get 8 bit 4:2:2 in 4K through hdmi.

I am pretty confident that Canon will fix all these concerns in the formware update that's coming, it's very logical of them to do that.
They are delaying giving that codecs to C200 until C300 replacement is released not to kill that line.

Once C300 mkiii is released, they will give C200 10 bit 4:2:2 I am sure.

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

The C200 is 8-bit only unless you are shooting raw.

There is 10bit 4:2:2 1080p coming through both the SDI and HDMI outputs. I would not expect this to change after launch, but we might see 4k 10 bit XF-AVC internally to the Cfast card, if the gods are listening.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Barry Goyette

we might see 4k 10 bit XF-AVC internally to the Cfast card, if the gods are listening.

And everyone would immediately sell their C300 Mark II and buy this, makes zero sense to do it.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

And everyone would immediately sell their C300 Mark II and buy this, makes zero sense to do it.

I'll be surprised if the XF-AVC isn't 8-bit for the reasons Gary mentions. Canon definitely protects their own product lineup. That's why internal Cinema RAW Light is such a surprise as it totally breaks with Canons traditional marketing segmenting.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

I'll be surprised if the XF-AVC isn't 8-bit for the reasons Gary mentions.

Here is a quote from the Post-Production Brief with the EOS C200:

"However, with a future firmware update the EOS C200 will gain the ability to record both UltraHD and FullHD to Canon’s purpose built XF-AVC codec inside of an .MXF OP-1A wrapper. This format will allow for an abundance of metadata to be captured to the file"

I would be willing to bet that the XF-AVC codec will be nearly identical to the MP4 option, just with the additional metadata that Canon cannot store in MP4. An 8-bit 4:2:2 XF-AVC codec already exists, it's in the XC10/15. However, an 8-bit 4:2:0 XF-AVC codec does not exist save for the low-bitrate proxy mode found in the C300/C700. That would need to be worked on and would explain why it's going to require a future firmware.

Also, it may be possible that the external 10-bit recording modes in 2K/1080 disables internal recording. I can't find any info about that. I do know that all VFR modes will be in 8-bit, unlike the C300.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

Here is a quote from the Post-Production Brief with the EOS C200:

"However, with a future firmware update the EOS C200 will gain the ability to record both UltraHD and FullHD to Canon’s purpose built XF-AVC codec inside of an .MXF OP-1A wrapper. This format will allow for an abundance of metadata to be captured to the file"

I would be willing to bet that the XF-AVC codec will be nearly identical to the MP4 option, just with the additional metadata that Canon cannot store in MP4. An 8-bit 4:2:2 XF-AVC codec already exists, it's in the XC10/15. However, an 8-bit 4:2:0 XF-AVC codec does not exist save for the low-bitrate proxy mode found in the C300/C700. That would need to be worked on and would explain why it's going to require a future firmware.

Also, it may be possible that the external 10-bit recording modes in 2K/1080 disables internal recording. I can't find any info about that. I do know that all VFR modes will be in 8-bit, unlike the C300.

My hope is that for a large majority of my shoots with the C200, I will be able to buy enough inexpensive, large CFast cards so I can just shoot Cinema RAW Light with the 2K proxy and not worry about all of this. It seems lately I have not been doing as many full days with shooting all day/event kind of footage. And for those clients, the .Mp4s will suffice, they do not pixel peep. That would make my life better and would give my projects a very good camera master to do whatever with.

[Pavel Sedlak]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

Here is a quote from the Post-Production Brief with the EOS C200:Also, it may be possible that the external 10-bit recording modes in 2K/1080 disables internal recording. I can't find any info about that

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/p...a-eos/eos-c200

Wide Range of Connectivity Options:

Output Signal Configurations (During Shooting)

Recording Type - MP4, 1920×1080 - HDMI 1920×1080, YCbCr 4:2:2, 10 bit (*3: Output will be YCbCr 4:2:2 8 bit when the recording mode is slow motion mode.).

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

What camera are you using that you can hold with one hand? Outside of small Handycams, I have never owned a camera that only needed one hand.

I also find it disgusting that someone has made a professional broadcast and cinema camera that weighs more than 0.3lbs

Shame on Canon for making a cine camera than can't be juggled by a newborn lemur.


(emoji for laughing while typing)

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Barry Goyette

we might see 4k 10 bit XF-AVC internally to the Cfast card, if the gods are listening.

Here is the official word.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

Here is the official word.

Straight from the horses mouth. Now the questions are, "4:2:2?" and "At what bit rate" although signs are leaning toward 4:2:0 and 150 Mbps.