New Panasonic AJ-PX230PJ

[Glen Vandermolen]

New Panasonic camcorder replaces the PX270.
1/3" 3MOS chips, AVC/Ultra.

[Louis Mostert]

Perfect events camera. Perfect price.

even has flash band compensation (events, weddings)

[Mark OConnell]

Am I missing something or is there no 4K?

There's no 4K, but it's optimized for HD with better codecs and features for ENG than what you'd get in a 4K camera. I shoot freelance for a local TV station and commercial clients, none of which want, or can use 4K. I'd rather use a practical ENG camera like the AJ-PX230PJ over something like a DVX-200.

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Ed Arszyla

There's no 4K,

$4,500 and no 4K -- really..?

-- peer

[Josh Bass]

yeeeeeeeaaaaah. That's my reaction. How much better HD is the best prosumer/small form factor camera these days than, say, an HD cam of a similar type from five years (or more) ago? I would think that quality would have plateaued a while ago, the differences in the newer cams being important when a broadcaster needs a certain bitrate codec, or maybe a non-broadcast client needs something that holds up to color correction/vfx? But for those of us who don't do broadcast stuff or stuff that gets heavily graded/etc. and that isn't a concern? I would need a lot of convincing to buy an HD-only cam now, new, rather than look for something used that's a few (or more) years old.

[Noa Put]

I think they should have done like sony did with the x70, make 4k available as a 500dollar upgrade.

$4,500 and no 4K -- really..?

Look what canon has done with the c100II, it doesn't have 4K either at the same pricepoint but excl lens and yet people continue to buy.

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Look what canon has done with the c100II, it doesn't have 4K either at the same pricepoint but excl lens and yet people continue to buy.

Yes, I know -- but, to me, this seems just like milking out as much as you can from an old cow. When even sub $1,000 cameras now shoot 4k, isn't it a bit desperate to try selling a $4,500 camera without it..?

Anyways, people are different, but I'll never buy a 2K camera again.

-- peer

[Glen Vandermolen]

There's still a big market for HD, especially in broadcast. I work with a lot of broadcast clients and they always ask for 1080/60i, sometimes 30P. They usually want 4:2:2 color and at least a 50 mbps codec. I have two 4K cameras and I have yet to convince a client to shoot 4K. I'm sure it's coming, but until then, HD is very popular.

I could get lots of use out of this new Panasonic, although I'd opt to go with the PJ270, as it has more pro connectors. like Time Code and Gen Lock.

To me, the big selling point of this camera is its AJ designation: this is the top tier in broadcast cameras from Panasonic. It's basically their big shoulder mount cams reduced to a hand held design. With smaller sensors, of course. I'm sure it takes fantastic video, which will hold up well in post.
Right now, in the US, it sells for about $4,000.

[Marshall Staton]

The 270 has a very nice picture and does extremely well in lowlight for being a 1/3" camera. Cramming 4k resolution onto a 1/3" chip would not be a good thing for low light sensitivity, which is critical in ENG work.

[Josh Bass]

But if you don't do broadcast (or anything with high CODEC/bitrate requirements? Wouldn't an older (i.e. cheaper) HD camcorder do just as well if one was currently in the market? Either way you're obsolete if everyone starts requiring 4K, so buying newer doesn't seem like it'd benefit you more unless you need the newer features/higher quality.

[Marshall Staton]

It depends. The 270/230 has a lot of "big" camera features in a small body. It also spits out quite a bit of heat and goes through batteries fairly quickly. IMO Panasonic has crammed a LOT of hardware into the small package.

For broadcast, specifically news, 4k is probably a long way away. It's difficult enough to get 1080/720 to a lot of places quickly. For satellite/fiber/cellular bonded transmission they are generally setup for HD. There are techniques in place such as sending 4 paths of a 4k signal that has been broken up into 4 parts and stitching them back together but it isn't really practical for most needs at this point.

As far as bit rates go there is a MAJOR broadcast network that has the 270's as b cam's that records in LongG-12 and it looks really nice.

While 4k is nice, and definitely a good tool to have as someone who shoots mostly news I don't think it's going to pick up in my world any time soon. I love using my FS-7 for interviews and often times live shots but I've never used 4k on it except when trying the camera out when I first received it. Come to think of it, I don't think I've used anything other than XDCAM422. For paying customers you need to give them what they want/need , not what is best.

The other problem with buying a 4K camera at the price point of the AJ-PX230PJ, is that the 4K camera would have some image quality and feature trade-offs. It would use one sensor instead of three RGB sensors, it would have very poor low-light performance, lower quality codecs and a short zoom range (you won't see a 4K camera with a 22x zoom). Then there's the client consideration, as I mentioned, no one I know ever requests that I shoot 4K.
And what are most people going use to view and edit 4K? Everyone I know is set up for HD and not willing to dump their expensive computers and monitors to buy 4K compatible gear that no client needs anyway. As an indicator of acceptance, look at videos on YouTube, almost anything on YouTube has a maximum resolution of 1080p, many videos are maximum 720p. I hardly ever see 4K video available on YouTube.

[Josh Bass]

I am banking on 4K not being a concern for me for a while, as I am looking into buying a C100 package very soon (just waiting for NAB announcements to make sure nothing better/comparable price is coming out soon). I haven't done any yet, haven't been asked to, had it MENTIONED once and that client relationship never worked out anyway.

I have colleagues in town who've done 4K work, so it is out there, not just for movies/etc. either.

I'm thinking right now 4K is in its infancy the way HD (at a prosumer/more affordable level) was in 2005/6 when the first smaller form factor cams were coming out (Sony HDV, HVX200, etc.), and the 4K a few years down the line at the same price point will be amazing compared to what's out there now. Nevertheless. . .if ya needs it, ya needs it, just hope you can pay off the cam before the better quality 4K ones come out and people start insisting on them!

[Mark OConnell]

Originally Posted by Ed Arszyla

... lower quality codecs and a short zoom range (you won't see a 4K camera with a 22x zoom). Then there's the client consideration, as I mentioned, no one I know ever requests that I shoot 4K...

The Z100 has a 20 x zoom and the same codec as the PMW-F55, fyi. It should also be mentioned that scaled down 4K footage makes fantastic HD.If Panasonic had made this camera 4K it would be something to take a serious look it. Oh well...