Canon developing 8K video camera at DVinfo.net

Glen Vandermolen · September 8th, 2015, 07:02 AM

Say whaaaat?

8K Cinema EOS Camera, 8K Monitor and More at Canon Expo 2015 -- from DV Info Net

"The Cinema EOS System 8K camera being developed will be equipped with a Canon Super 35 mm-equivalent CMOS sensor that makes possible high-resolution 8,192 x 4,320 pixel (approximately 35.39 million effective pixels) imaging performance even at a frame rate of 60 frames per second with 13 stops1 of dynamic range and a richly expressive wide color gamut. Additionally, featuring a body size that realizes outstanding mobility and a design that delivers high levels of operability, along with an EF mount that offers compatibility with Canon’s extensive interchangeable EF lens lineup,2 the camera will support diverse shooting styles and means of visual expression."

Oh, and there's also a 120 megapixel SLR.

Jon Fairhurst · September 8th, 2015, 10:15 AM

Don't be too surprised. There is a big push in Japan to have 8K broadcasts on the air in time for the 2020 Olympics. NHK has been demonstrating it for a few years at NAB as "Super Hi-Vision". 8K is on its way.

Mark Koha · September 8th, 2015, 01:25 PM

Nothing like leap frogging 4K.

Roger Gunkel · September 8th, 2015, 04:09 PM

It will be interesting to see what it looks like when my wedding clients ask for their 8k filmed wedding to be put on DVD for them ;-)

Roger

Jon Fairhurst · September 8th, 2015, 04:14 PM

If they want an 8K wedding, recommend that they get married as part of the Opening Ceremonies of the 2020 Games. :)

Jack Zhang · September 8th, 2015, 04:44 PM

Remember, NHK already live-fed the 2012 London Olympics in 8K to the Smithsonian before. Canon's just making it easier.

However, ALL the shots have to be crane or gimbal based. When being projected on an IMAX sized screen, 8K UHDTV will make people motion sick.

One proposal was to make the frame rate 120fps, doubling from the original plan to use 60fps. Remember to have a 32 channel recorder in the field cause the default surround format is 22.2 surround.

Jon Fairhurst · September 8th, 2015, 06:15 PM

One surprising thing about 8K - even on an 85-inch screen - is that if you view it up close and the camera is moving through space, one perceives a 3D effect. Yeah, we get this anytime that the camera moves and the foreground and background change differently, but with the higher resolution and a wide enough view, one gets a sense of 3D reality - even without stereo vision.

Roshdi Alkadri · September 8th, 2015, 10:37 PM

8K...very much needed, for 2033...still have time to shoot on the good old HD standard and maybe some 4K. I'll skip and wait for 16K

Emmanuel Plakiotis · September 9th, 2015, 12:48 AM

We are reaching the limits of human vision. It will be ok if you want to put a wall sized screen in your living room and change the look of the room wth the push of a button, but it hardly make a difference in most cinema screens.

Warren Kawamoto · September 9th, 2015, 01:06 AM

3 or 4 years ago at the NHK booth at NAB, I remember the camera being as big as a refrigerator! The lens had a diameter of about a foot. Last year, they came out with a tiny 8K camera that fits in the palm of your hand...about the size of a rubik's cube. Very impressive how they shrunk everything down so quickly.

The one comment I kept hearing, though, was that the image looked "very video" and nothing like film.

Roger Gunkel · September 9th, 2015, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto

3 or 4 years ago at the NHK booth at NAB, I remember the camera being as big as a refrigerator! The lens had a diameter of about a foot. Last year, they came out with a tiny 8K camera that fits in the palm of your hand...about the size of a rubik's cube. Very impressive how they shrunk everything down so quickly.

The one comment I kept hearing, though, was that the image looked "very video" and nothing like film.

Perhaps it's more the fact that the clarity of the image image looks more like real life, whereas film looks like.......................film!

Roger

Lawrence Bansbach · September 9th, 2015, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

Perhaps it's more the fact that the clarity of the image image looks more like real life, whereas film looks like.......................film!

Roger

Or that it had typical video edge enhancement and was exhibited at a 60- or 120-fps frame rate.

Jack Zhang · September 9th, 2015, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kawamoto

3 or 4 years ago at the NHK booth at NAB, I remember the camera being as big as a refrigerator! The lens had a diameter of about a foot. Last year, they came out with a tiny 8K camera that fits in the palm of your hand...about the size of a rubik's cube. Very impressive how they shrunk everything down so quickly.

The one comment I kept hearing, though, was that the image looked "very video" and nothing like film.

That's 1. The high frame rate making it look like "video" and 2. It lacked the high dynamic range and wide gamut technologies that exist today. (Your demo was probably Rec-709 based)

24p fits nowhere in 8K UHDTV, it's 60p or 120p that NHK is pushing for.

Jon Fairhurst · September 9th, 2015, 11:31 AM

I don't believe that 8K, in and of itself, would limit the result to a film or video look. If anything, 8K would be able to show film grain (maybe added in post) with liquid accuracy. As others have said, the film look is more related to dynamic range, color space, and the frame rate (not to mention grading and shooting style.)

I also saw that first Super Hi-Vision demo at NAB with the engine-sized camera. It was technically impressive and artistically challenged. They showed things like Google Maps and wide shots with detail from corner to corner. This was very different than films and live sports where the director or the motion of the ball directs your eyes. I found myself a bit overwhelmed by the presentation, given that with all that information and no direction, it made me feel somewhat small and incompetent. There was no way that I could retain all of the info on the map or take in every blade of grass. But that's not a fault of 8K. It was a fault of engineers, rather than directors, setting up the shots. A real film or sporting event would have directed my vision to the detail that actually matters.

Note that a photo or painting is different. As it's still, we know that we have time to ponder it from corner to corner. With video, even when the shot is static and locked down, we know that the next cut could come at any time.

Jack Zhang · September 9th, 2015, 12:59 PM

Convergent Design revealed they are powering the recording for the prototype:

https://convergent-design.com/compan...8k-camera.html

September 8th, 2015, 07:02 AM	#1
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Canon developing 8K video camera Say whaaaat? 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 8K Monitor and More at Canon Expo 2015 -- from DV Info Net "The Cinema EOS System 8K camera being developed will be equipped with a Canon Super 35 mm-equivalent CMOS sensor that makes possible high-resolution 8,192 x 4,320 pixel (approximately 35.39 million effective pixels) imaging performance even at a frame rate of 60 frames per second with 13 stops1 of dynamic range and a richly expressive wide color gamut. Additionally, featuring a body size that realizes outstanding mobility and a design that delivers high levels of operability, along with an EF mount that offers compatibility with Canon’s extensive interchangeable EF lens lineup,2 the camera will support diverse shooting styles and means of visual expression." Oh, and there's also a 120 megapixel SLR.

September 8th, 2015, 10:15 AM	#2
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera Don't be too surprised. There is a big push in Japan to have 8K broadcasts on the air in time for the 2020 Olympics. NHK has been demonstrating it for a few years at NAB as "Super Hi-Vision". 8K is on its way. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 8th, 2015, 01:25 PM	#3
Mark Koha Major Player Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 243	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera Nothing like leap frogging 4K.

September 8th, 2015, 04:09 PM	#4
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera It will be interesting to see what it looks like when my wedding clients ask for their 8k filmed wedding to be put on DVD for them ;-) Roger

September 8th, 2015, 04:14 PM	#5
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera If they want an 8K wedding, recommend that they get married as part of the Opening Ceremonies of the 2020 Games. :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 8th, 2015, 04:44 PM	#6
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera Remember, NHK already live-fed the 2012 London Olympics in 8K to the Smithsonian before. Canon's just making it easier. However, ALL the shots have to be crane or gimbal based. When being projected on an IMAX sized screen, 8K UHDTV will make people motion sick. One proposal was to make the frame rate 120fps, doubling from the original plan to use 60fps. Remember to have a 32 channel recorder in the field cause the default surround format is 22.2 surround.

September 8th, 2015, 06:15 PM	#7
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera One surprising thing about 8K - even on an 85-inch screen - is that if you view it up close and the camera is moving through space, one perceives a 3D effect. Yeah, we get this anytime that the camera moves and the foreground and background change differently, but with the higher resolution and a wide enough view, one gets a sense of 3D reality - even without stereo vision. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 8th, 2015, 10:37 PM	#8
Roshdi Alkadri Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 265	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera 8K...very much needed, for 2033...still have time to shoot on the good old HD standard and maybe some 4K. I'll skip and wait for 16K

September 9th, 2015, 12:48 AM	#9
Emmanuel Plakiotis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 344	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera We are reaching the limits of human vision. It will be ok if you want to put a wall sized screen in your living room and change the look of the room wth the push of a button, but it hardly make a difference in most cinema screens.

September 9th, 2015, 01:06 AM	#10
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera 3 or 4 years ago at the NHK booth at NAB, I remember the camera being as big as a refrigerator! The lens had a diameter of about a foot. Last year, they came out with a tiny 8K camera that fits in the palm of your hand...about the size of a rubik's cube. Very impressive how they shrunk everything down so quickly. The one comment I kept hearing, though, was that the image looked "very video" and nothing like film.

September 9th, 2015, 11:31 AM	#14
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera I don't believe that 8K, in and of itself, would limit the result to a film or video look. If anything, 8K would be able to show film grain (maybe added in post) with liquid accuracy. As others have said, the film look is more related to dynamic range, color space, and the frame rate (not to mention grading and shooting style.) I also saw that first Super Hi-Vision demo at NAB with the engine-sized camera. It was technically impressive and artistically challenged. They showed things like Google Maps and wide shots with detail from corner to corner. This was very different than films and live sports where the director or the motion of the ball directs your eyes. I found myself a bit overwhelmed by the presentation, given that with all that information and no direction, it made me feel somewhat small and incompetent. There was no way that I could retain all of the info on the map or take in every blade of grass. But that's not a fault of 8K. It was a fault of engineers, rather than directors, setting up the shots. A real film or sporting event would have directed my vision to the detail that actually matters. Note that a photo or painting is different. As it's still, we know that we have time to ponder it from corner to corner. With video, even when the shot is static and locked down, we know that the next cut could come at any time. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 9th, 2015, 12:59 PM	#15
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Canon developing 8K video camera Convergent Design revealed they are powering the recording for the prototype: https://convergent-design.com/compan...8k-camera.html Last edited by Jack Zhang; September 9th, 2015 at 04:18 PM.