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June 15th, 2015, 09:58 AM | #31 |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
That sounds as if you're equating "very sharp" with "video look"?
I know where you're coming from, but I don't think it's true any more. It's almost the opposite. Go back about 20 years - when HD (let alone 4K! :-) ) was a dream for most - and the basic problem with video images was LACK of real definition, and it became the norm to wind in large amounts of detail enhancement to try to give an illusion of sharpness. Think obvious edges round objects. And THAT is what I'd say is the real objectionable side to "video look". But the sharper the image really is, the less need for electronic sharpening, and indeed many cameras now have an ability for negative enhancement. You can always make a picture softer, but not always the opposite! |
June 15th, 2015, 10:45 AM | #32 |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
True, we can always make something softer. I think for me there is something I simply can't define that tells me something is video or at least not film.
I used to be biased against the Black Magic Cams and now I realize it's simply because there is very few nicely graded footage out there. Since them I've stumbled on a few decently graded footage, from all 3 current smaller BMC and I must say there is something amazing, for the price, in all the BMC footage I've seen that I don't see in the NX1. The more I think about it and the more I'm convinced that it must have something to do with the color sampling. Shooting raw or ProRes 4:4:4 is going to allow more latitude in post and I think this is what I see lacking in all the mirrorless cam such as NX1, GH4 etc... I'm slowly confirming something I had always felt in my gut, a very good color space, provided some decent res is there, is much much better than just razor sharp definition. It's personal and very subjective. |
June 16th, 2015, 02:00 AM | #33 | |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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I read today that the native iso in s-log mode is 800 so I'm sure it can be happily stretched a few more iso's at least. 1600 should be easy--wonder if 3200 is asking too much. And I wonder what the native iso is for the crop mode. As to that, does the metabones adapter in crop mode increase the available light the way it does on other cameras? That could be very exciting in and of its self. |
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June 16th, 2015, 12:56 PM | #34 |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
Metabones makes 1:1 adapters, and then the "Speed Boosters" you are referring to. All of the excitement about the a7RII focusing so well with Canon lenses is with the 1:1 adapters (the excitement is because earlier Sony Alpha cameras did not focus very fast with Metabones.) In principle the Speed Boosters should work and be great for Super 35 video, but I don't think anyone has demonstrated that yet.
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June 16th, 2015, 05:52 PM | #35 | ||||
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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That is much, much easier than the more conventional way of doing a conventional deBayer, and then having to do complicated scaling - as easy as line skipping methods have been, but without the quality issues they have been associated with. That's the beauty - theoretically, if it is what it's doing! :-) But it's only possible with exactly the right number of photosites - not too many, not too few, that's the point. And why I've been wondering when we were going to get exactly such a 40Mp sensor (3:2 - cropping to 33Mp for 16:9) The point about super35 is that it's the basic video large format standard, so an ability to do it well is important as well as the full frame abilities. But such a crop from such a sensor means you are now nowhere near any of these "magic" numbers, so the only way to get quality now is to do the conventional deBayer and scaling. Well, only from about half the total sensor count, but likely still a lot of processing and that's why I think Sony are flagging up that it's not pixel binning - not for anything it implies about the FF mode. It needs proper tests to be certain - but well, from the number count I say again I'm optimistic! Quote:
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If you keep sensor size the same, but reduce the size of the photosites, it must follow that the resolution will increase. It further follows that whilst each photosite may then be noisier at a given illumination, it's effect on a given output image will be smaller in area, so the effects tend to cancel out for a given size of output picture. It's a bit like comparing two film cameras with differing negative sizes. Which will be the best in low light? DIRECTLY speaking, it may seem a silly question - as the answer may seem to be as simple as "it's irrelevant - it only depends on the film ISO". But think a bit deeper. If we're interested in a given level of grain for acceptability, then it follows that the larger format can tolerate a higher ISO film stock than the smaller format before grain becomes a problem. So negative size DOES have a bearing on low light capability, yes? :-) Quote:
(And practically, if we assume twice the brightness, but half the size, then for corresponding sensors you can expect very comparable performance. Halving sensor size - with all else equal - is likely to reduce the native ISO rating by about a stop. But since the image is twice as bright it brings things back to square one - same performance. The oft made mistake is to focus solely on the way one variable changes, and ignore other variables. "Amount of light" and "brightness" are related, but are *NOT* the same thing.) |
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June 17th, 2015, 05:16 PM | #36 | |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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June 18th, 2015, 03:39 PM | #37 |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
For 4K UHD in Super35 mode the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Sony A mount with A to E mount adapter looks interesting. Maybe Metabones will come out with a Speedbooster A-E mount adapter for lenses like the new full frame Tamron SP 15-30mm f/2.8 Di USD Lens (Sony A).
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June 19th, 2015, 05:08 PM | #38 |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
But a Speedbooster is designed to use a full-frame lens with a s35 sensor - that's fair enough if you have a camera with that size sensor and full frame lenses. It'll keep the lens angle as when used on a a full frame camera, and won't waste any light.
But if your camera has a full-frame 4K mode, then what's the point of the Speedbooster!? For a given full-frame lens, then why not simply just put it on the camera and use that in full-frame mode? To answer my own question, then it may be valid if the s35 crop mode was noticeably better than the full-frame mode, but for all the reasons above I strongly suspect that will not be the case. But OK, let's wait for proper tests. |
June 20th, 2015, 10:48 AM | #39 | |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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That being said I'll still probably go with a standard adapter. I just love the full frame aesthetic too much to abandon it all together. |
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June 20th, 2015, 04:54 PM | #40 | ||
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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It's being INTERPRETED as meaning "better" because we've got used to the idea of a very large number of photosites will mean it will have to pixel skip or bin. By and large that may be true, but once you get up to a count of 4x3840x2160 that theory all goes out the window for the reasons I gave earlier. ("2x2" block read, or direct read etc.) We'll have to wait to see what actual results show, but I think dismissing the full-frame 4k mode and assuming speed-boosters will be necessary is very premature. But let me know if I've missed anything Sony have said. |
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June 22nd, 2015, 04:59 PM | #41 |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
To be clear, I certainly was not dismissive of the full-frame mode and even indicated that I'd still likely prefer it over S35. I still think Sony is making it sound like S35 mode will have less moire and processing artifacts. But yes agreed time will tell. I wish they'd hurry up and release some full frame images.
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June 22nd, 2015, 10:30 PM | #42 | |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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I'm more interested in whether Sony and third party APS-C lenses will work in the Super 35 mode. There is a great selection of these lenses. I'm pretty sure this is going to work, but again, Sony hasn't discussed it. |
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June 23rd, 2015, 06:05 AM | #43 | |
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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June 23rd, 2015, 06:21 PM | #44 | ||
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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If it is the case, the rule book has to be rewritten. The first test that could be done to try to prove or disprove whether what I'm saying is true is to first lock the camera off, ideally looking at something like a ruler laid horizontally. Then take a still frame using full frame max resolution mode, then shoot some 4K full frame 4K video without moving the camera, and compare the angle of views of the two results. The max resolution for stills is 7952x5304. If my theory is correct, it must use 7680x4320 if it's doing the 2x2 read for video in this mode. The implication is that if I'm right, we'll see a slight reduction in the angle of view between the still and video modes - video mode will be a bit tighter than stills. It's possible to predict how much it be which is the difference between the horizontal counts, divided by the total, and multiplied by 100 to get a percentage. That's about a 3.5% crop. So - does that happen? Quote:
Conspiracy would be that they want to keep the exact details from their competitors for as long as possible, in which case they are going to appreciate what I've said like a hole in the head! Cock-up would be that in many organisations there is a big gap between the designers and engineers and the marketing and sales people - and it's the latter who tend to write the public facing literature. Believe me on this one! And all too often the marketing people don't fully understand what the technical people tell them, let alone there being issues with needing to condense it into a public friendly form anyway. And in general, I normally favour cock-up over conspiracy...... And either of those are more likely than 3 ghosts coming a-visiting! :-) |
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June 24th, 2015, 09:20 AM | #45 | |||||
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Re: Sony announced new A7r mk2, RX10mk2 and RX100mk4 all with internal 4k
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