Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k

[Ryan Douthit]

This was just announced. Looks like interesting new competition for the GH4. H.265 could be huge. Lens selection could be an issue, but honestly I don't know anything about Samsung cameras.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1081854-REG/samsung_ev_nx1zzzbzbus_nx1_digital_camera.html

Specs, from B&H:
28.2MP BSI APS-C CMOS Sensor
DRIMe V Image Signal Processor
4K Video Recording at 24 fps
UHD Video Recording at 30 fps
3.0" 1036k-Dot Tilt-Touchscreen Monitor
XGA OLED Electronic Viewfinder
Advanced Hybrid Autofocus System
205 Phase-Detection AF Points
15 fps Burst with AF
Samsung NX Lens Mount

[Jurij Turnsek]

Specs look beastly to say the least. Hope to see some bitrate and buffer numbers soon. And the Samsung lens selection seems very good, although I cannot speak from experience (on the quality).

I hope Sony, Samsung and Fuji thrive, since the same mirrorless lens designs from 3rd party manufacturers can be designed for all.

[Jurij Turnsek]

"The codec is a successor to H.264 and is capable of providing ProRes quality at 1% of the file size (that’s 5Mbit bitrate for 500Mbit quality video)."

[Emmanuel Plakiotis]

On the spec sheet the sensor is described:
6.5K Super 35mm sensor with 4K (4096 x 2160 at 24p) and Ultra HD (3840 x 2160) video mode
and as:
14bit raw stills at 28MP (6480 x 4320) from effective 28.2MP, total 30.7MP Samsung

Can someone please explain, the correlation between the 2 different descriptions. Because its the same sensor after all.

[Troy Lamont]

Sounds great spec wise.

I'm really hoping Canon comes with something like this!!

[Jack Zhang]

What people don't realize is that while H.265 visually allows for less bitrate for the same visual look, it's actually throwing away more data, so that is not good for color grading and post. That's what a high profile is for in the specifications, and currently there is no high profile in HEVC that would be broadcast production compliant.

Remember HDV and the BBC/Discovery? Same would apply for HEVC and 4K.

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis

14bit raw stills at 28MP (6480 x 4320).

And probably just 8-bit in 4k video (like the 1DC).

-- peer

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

...it's actually throwing away more data...

But is it really throwing away more data? It might have fewer bits but might retain more of the original input. Said another way, the result might be a more accurate representation of the original image, regardless of bit count.

My understanding is that h.265 allows multiple macroblock sizes, finer and wider motion compensation, and includes more feedback loops to reduce errors. If the Main 10 profile is used, it can code 10-bit values and there is evidence that 10-bit coding is actually more efficient than eight bit coding, due to the smaller errors to be compensated for during coding.

Will the coding be better in this camera than say a Canon DSLR? Too soon to tell. It depends on the profile, bit rate and implementation. But the fine hair in the sample images looked great. I didn't see mosquito noise in the high frequency areas or course blocks in the flat areas. If nothing else, it's promising.

My main concern is about rolling shutter. All of the video demo material used highly stabilized cameras. More and more, I want a camera with a global (or near global) shutter. Was the controlled motion of the cameras an artistic decision or is it there to hide flaws? We will see...

[Jack Zhang]

It's going to be a nightmare for the bleeding edge of post workflow compatibility regardless. Remember the days of Mainconcept, Cineform and HDV?

[Jon Fairhurst]

So true about workflow. It will be a while before NLEs and graphics cards include efficient, native h.265 decoders.

[Troy Lamont]

YouTube 4k sample

"their sensor is able to do a full pixel readout at up to 30fps in 7K and so there’s no crop in 4K video mode."

Interested to see what this APS C sensor can do compared to the competition.

[Dave Blackhurst]

OK, now it's a party... the Samsung promo reel looks like it's pretty good, unlike the rather scary Panasonic promos. Decent dynamic range, looks like it handles the shadows fairly well, good solid detail. Could be a winner...

Wonder how much it'll cost for a "system" with lenses, batteries, flash for stills... never really considered Samsung for a imaging/camera company, but they might have something here!

[Douglas Call]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

But is it really throwing away more data? It might have fewer bits but might retain more of the original input. Said another way, the result might be a more accurate representation of the original image, regardless of bit count.

Here is what they say about the bitrate 40Mbs at another website.
Samsung NX1: price, specs, release date confirmed | Digital Camera World

What’s more, the new DRIMe V Image Processor allows the Samsung NX1 to support 4K UHD video recording with no need for external equipment. As our testing team notes: “Samsung is using a new codec, H.265 (HEVC) and 40Mbps for its 4K video. This is claimed to have the same image quality, but half the size of 100Mbps H.264 footage.

[John Wiley]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis

On the spec sheet the sensor is described:
6.5K Super 35mm sensor with 4K (4096 x 2160 at 24p) and Ultra HD (3840 x 2160) video mode
and as:
14bit raw stills at 28MP (6480 x 4320) from effective 28.2MP, total 30.7MP Samsung

Can someone please explain, the correlation between the 2 different descriptions. Because its the same sensor after all.

The 6.5K corrolates to the horizontal resolution (6480 pixels) of the sensor. Generally people use total pixel count when talking about still photos but only one dimension when talking about moving pictures - usually vertical resolution when talking about video (eg 720p, 1080p) and horizontal resolution when talking about cinema (2k, 4k).

[Troy Lamont]

Originally Posted by Douglas Call

Here is what they say about the bitrate 40Mbs at another website.
Samsung NX1: price, specs, release date confirmed | Digital Camera World

What’s more, the new DRIMe V Image Processor allows the Samsung NX1 to support 4K UHD video recording with no need for external equipment. As our testing team notes: “Samsung is using a new codec, H.265 (HEVC) and 40Mbps for its 4K video. This is claimed to have the same image quality, but half the size of 100Mbps H.264 footage.

Actually, they're reporting that they actually have a "Pro" mode that ups the bitrate to 80Mbs for HEVC:

The camera records H.265 at 80Mbit/s in Pro mode, 40Mbit/s in HQ mode. Samsung told me the Pro mode is equivalent to H.264 at 160Mbit/s but I doubt this figure, because to my knowledge H.265 delivers greater efficiency than that.