Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k

Tim Polster · May 14th, 2015, 06:48 AM

What if your client does not have the special TV needed for the footage to look proper?

4k is still too much for a lot of post production workflows, especially in H.265 which needs to be transcoded for most NLE's. I think it is important for all manufacturers and software makers to not "drink the Kool-Aid" on 4k. We still need 1080p and 720p way more and often use DVD for delivery as well.

The in-camera downsampling should be as good as your NLE these days if done correctly. No excuse for a 4k camera to not produce stellar 1080p. But you can not lose sight of the fact that this is a still camera.

Ken Ross · May 14th, 2015, 09:05 AM

Tim, it seems to me that no prosumer 4K camera offers HD shooting that's as good as an HD transcoded copy from 4K. I don't think it's quite as easy to do as you might think.

Either way, it doesn't seem a big deal to me. When I edit, I edit in 4K and then either make a 4K or HD render. Sometimes I'll do both. It doesn't require any additional editing to make an HD copy of a 4K project.

As far as stills go, I find it exceedingly easy to grab an almost infinite number of 8meg frame grabs from a 4K timeline. Very nice & a multitude of possibilities.

Mark Rosenzweig · May 14th, 2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

What if your client does not have the special TV needed for the footage to look proper?

4k is still too much for a lot of post production workflows, especially in H.265 which needs to be transcoded for most NLE's. I think it is important for all manufacturers and software makers to not "drink the Kool-Aid" on 4k. We still need 1080p and 720p way more and often use DVD for delivery as well.

The in-camera downsampling should be as good as your NLE these days if done correctly. No excuse for a 4k camera to not produce stellar 1080p. But you can not lose sight of the fact that this is a still camera.

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I think calling 4K "Kool-Aid" is over the top and calling on manufacturers and software producers to ignore it is uncalled for. You can go on shooting 720p no matter what innovations there are. More substantively, even if you always deliver at less than 4K, 4K not only gives you higher-quality, lower-resolution videos but gives you more creative possibilities - for example, you can zoom in post, reframe in post and not lose any resolution for the delivery of Full HD. This is not Kool-Aid, this is a real aid to higher quality video.

And as for excuses, what excuses does Canon have for delivering soft and artifact-ridden HD? Being a stills camera is irrelevant (whatever that means). Apparently, as Ken says, it must be harder to downsample in the camera than you think.

Tim Polster · May 14th, 2015, 11:29 AM

Everybody calm down. I am not speaking ill of 4k. What I am calling Kool-Aid is the idea that all of the sudden 4k will be the center of production and 'who needs those other formats'... 4k is a tool, but is way too early to be the main or only format of quality on a camera imho.

Having a camera that shoots great 4k and sub par 1080p is what I am referring to. This was the case when the HD era arrived and cameras started coming out without an SD mode. Well, the next round of cameras had the SD modes put back in. The makers can't dictate how we need the use the cameras to make money.

btw, being a stills camera means it probably does not have the processing power for video as a dedicated video camera. The mid level 4k video cameras have excellent 1080p as they utilize quality downsampling from the 4k imager.

Mark Rosenzweig · May 14th, 2015, 07:51 PM

Back to a video (4K, sorry):

Tim Polster · May 15th, 2015, 09:08 AM

Yes, amazing level of detail.

Mark Rosenzweig · May 19th, 2015, 08:56 AM

Kris Kohuth · May 19th, 2015, 11:07 AM

Hi, Mark.

I'm seeing an occasional vertical smearing at the bottom edge of the frame, usually during a tilt-up from areas of high-density detail, like the grass at 24:09 (see the thumbnail).

I thought it might be my non-4K system choking, but when I downloaded the full-res file from Vimeo, the weirdness shows up when advanced frame-by-frame, in both Edius and Premiere. Any ideas?

.

Mark Rosenzweig · May 19th, 2015, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Kohuth

Hi, Mark.

I'm seeing an occasional vertical smearing at the bottom edge of the frame, usually during a tilt-up from areas of high-density detail, like the grass at 24:09 (see the thumbnail).

I thought it might be my non-4K system choking, but when I downloaded the full-res file from Vimeo, the weirdness shows up when advanced frame-by-frame, in both Edius and Premiere. Any ideas?

.

Thanks for looking. It appears this artifact is the result of PowerDirector 13, which I have used to edit the clips.

Here is the link to the original clip that has the artifact in the full PD 13-rendered video, converted using the Samsung Movie converter.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=video%2cmp4

You will see that this artifact is not in the original clip.

The clips for the Vimeo video were rendered in PD13 using XAVC S, at 100 Mbps.

Mark Rosenzweig · May 20th, 2015, 05:23 PM

Kris Kohuth · May 22nd, 2015, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

Thanks for looking. It appears this artifact is the result of PowerDirector 13, which I have used to edit the clips.

Here is the link to the original clip that has the artifact in the full PD 13-rendered video, converted using the Samsung Movie converter.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=video%2cmp4

You will see that this artifact is not in the original clip.

The clips for the Vimeo video were rendered in PD13 using XAVC S, at 100 Mbps.

Thanks for isolating the issue. (And the 1080p 120 is impressive.)

Larry Secrest · May 27th, 2015, 04:26 AM

I'm curious about this cam and I found this footage, and I must say the NX1 is sharper, but as far as color, at least on my screen, it's a match.

Tim Polster · May 27th, 2015, 09:07 AM

Quick question:

Does the 120fps recording mode have the ability to record audio? Or is it an overcrank mode without audio.

Thanks.

Ken Ross · May 27th, 2015, 08:59 PM

How effective is the AF with the new firmware? Although my intent was not to 'test' it at an event like this, but rather capture some interesting footage, it nonetheless does show how well Samsung improved the AF.

All shots are straight from the camera, edited in PD13 and shot with the 18-200mm lens.

Select 4K if you have the ability to view on a 4K or UHD monitor.

Dave Blackhurst · May 28th, 2015, 03:08 PM

Looks very nice on a 4K monitor! Samsung seems to have done a pretty good job at producing good sharp 4K images, anyone try their NX500 (the baby bro to the NX1)? Been contemplating that one as a "pocket" camera, seeing as Samsung seems to be at least as much on top of 4K, if not more than the "big boys".

I'm happy with the Sony AX100, but getting a tad tired of waiting for a 4K update to the RX10 or any of their other still (Alpha) cams for that matter

May 14th, 2015, 06:48 AM	#46
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k What if your client does not have the special TV needed for the footage to look proper? 4k is still too much for a lot of post production workflows, especially in H.265 which needs to be transcoded for most NLE's. I think it is important for all manufacturers and software makers to not "drink the Kool-Aid" on 4k. We still need 1080p and 720p way more and often use DVD for delivery as well. The in-camera downsampling should be as good as your NLE these days if done correctly. No excuse for a 4k camera to not produce stellar 1080p. But you can not lose sight of the fact that this is a still camera.

May 14th, 2015, 09:05 AM	#47
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Tim, it seems to me that no prosumer 4K camera offers HD shooting that's as good as an HD transcoded copy from 4K. I don't think it's quite as easy to do as you might think. Either way, it doesn't seem a big deal to me. When I edit, I edit in 4K and then either make a 4K or HD render. Sometimes I'll do both. It doesn't require any additional editing to make an HD copy of a 4K project. As far as stills go, I find it exceedingly easy to grab an almost infinite number of 8meg frame grabs from a 4K timeline. Very nice & a multitude of possibilities.

May 14th, 2015, 11:29 AM	#49
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Everybody calm down. I am not speaking ill of 4k. What I am calling Kool-Aid is the idea that all of the sudden 4k will be the center of production and 'who needs those other formats'... 4k is a tool, but is way too early to be the main or only format of quality on a camera imho. Having a camera that shoots great 4k and sub par 1080p is what I am referring to. This was the case when the HD era arrived and cameras started coming out without an SD mode. Well, the next round of cameras had the SD modes put back in. The makers can't dictate how we need the use the cameras to make money. btw, being a stills camera means it probably does not have the processing power for video as a dedicated video camera. The mid level 4k video cameras have excellent 1080p as they utilize quality downsampling from the 4k imager.

May 14th, 2015, 07:51 PM	#50
Mark Rosenzweig Trustee Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 1,004	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Back to a video (4K, sorry): Samsung NX1 4K Video: Enjoying the St. James River Area in Richmond on Vimeo

May 15th, 2015, 09:08 AM	#51
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Yes, amazing level of detail.

May 19th, 2015, 08:56 AM	#52
Mark Rosenzweig Trustee Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 1,004	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Samsung NX1 4K Video: Richmond - The Capitol, the Governor and the Flying Squirrels on Vimeo <iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/128207731" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

May 19th, 2015, 11:07 AM	#53
Kris Kohuth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mooresville, NC Posts: 49	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Hi, Mark. I'm seeing an occasional vertical smearing at the bottom edge of the frame, usually during a tilt-up from areas of high-density detail, like the grass at 24:09 (see the thumbnail). I thought it might be my non-4K system choking, but when I downloaded the full-res file from Vimeo, the weirdness shows up when advanced frame-by-frame, in both Edius and Premiere. Any ideas? . Attached Thumbnails

May 20th, 2015, 05:23 PM	#55
Mark Rosenzweig Trustee Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 1,004	Post 1.3 firmware update slo-mo test from 1080 120p YouTube (Short URL)

May 27th, 2015, 04:26 AM	#57
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k I'm curious about this cam and I found this footage, and I must say the NX1 is sharper, but as far as color, at least on my screen, it's a match. Samsung NX1 vs Panasonic GH4 - YouTube

May 27th, 2015, 09:07 AM	#58
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Quick question: Does the 120fps recording mode have the ability to record audio? Or is it an overcrank mode without audio. Thanks.

May 27th, 2015, 08:59 PM	#59
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	NX1 4K video of the 2015 Bethpage Airshow How effective is the AF with the new firmware? Although my intent was not to 'test' it at an event like this, but rather capture some interesting footage, it nonetheless does show how well Samsung improved the AF. All shots are straight from the camera, edited in PD13 and shot with the 18-200mm lens. Select 4K if you have the ability to view on a 4K or UHD monitor. YouTube (Short URL)

May 28th, 2015, 03:08 PM	#60
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Samsung NX1: H.265 and 4k Looks very nice on a 4K monitor! Samsung seems to have done a pretty good job at producing good sharp 4K images, anyone try their NX500 (the baby bro to the NX1)? Been contemplating that one as a "pocket" camera, seeing as Samsung seems to be at least as much on top of 4K, if not more than the "big boys". I'm happy with the Sony AX100, but getting a tad tired of waiting for a 4K update to the RX10 or any of their other still (Alpha) cams for that matter