Panasonic AG-PX270

[Michael Warren]

I don't know about most people, but I shoot wildlife and long reach is very important.

It was also important when I was shooting sport professionally many years ago. I could have bought a house for what some of those lenses cost.

[Josh Bass]

Oh well. At least my foot tastes delicious. Maybe use a little less salt.

[Justin Molush]

Shooting sports quite extensively in the past with the HVX200s Ive always liked this form factor for run and gun shooting. Documentation says 10 bit 4:2:2 in 50mb - sounds interesting. Also says AVC Intra 200? Curious to see some images and how it holds up to some abuse. This could be a solid run and gun sports/reality TV shooter.

[Michael Warren]

Originally Posted by Justin Molush

Documentation says 10 bit 4:2:2 in 50mb - sounds interesting. Also says AVC Intra 200?

The only documentation I've found so far says:

Wide Range of Recording Bit Rates: AVC-ULTRA*1 Codec Family
•AVC-LongG50/25 and AVC-Intra100/50 codecs are provided as standard features. AVC-LongG50/25 codecs achieve 10 bit/4:2:2 image quality at a data rate of approximately 50/25 Mbps.
•Optional AVC-Intra200 codec for visually lossless images that approach uncompressed master quality.
•Low-bit-rate AVC-Proxy for network use.

*1: AVC-ULTRA is the name of Panasonic's professional video codec family. The AJ-PX270 does not support all of the formats included in the AVC-ULTRA family.

Notice that AVC-Intra 200 is optional. I like that idea if it means the camera will be cheaper, because I can't see that the quality from the sensor/lens is going to be good enough to justify AVC-Intra 200.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Michael Warren

The way it's presented, I think not. There's no reason to single out one particular part of the AVC-Ultra spec and show it along side a picture of the PX270, unless it does have it, or they are trying to fool people into thinking it does.

The video also mentions that the SDI outputs 50/60p. I find it unlikely that it would do that if it couldn't record it. The technical reasons for excluding 60p are about processing speed, not card write speed.

Watching again, I see what you mean.

I can only say I'm very surprised that if it has any 1080p/50 ability, it isn't flagged up heavily right at the start - as it is they make big points about a front rec run button, and positioning of an audio level control - what you say about 1080p/50 output is tucked away towards the end.

[Jack Zhang]

Very unlikely that it will have 1080 50p/60p since it's locked to MicroP2.

The PMW-300 only speced out that their XAVC was up to 100mbps. If that's I-frame, that means no 1080 50p/60p.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

Very unlikely that it will have 1080 50p/60p since it's locked to MicroP2.

I'm pretty sure that microP2 is able to handle 200Mbs - so should be OK for 1080p/50 at AVC-Intra Class 100. (It's 400Mbs which microP2 isn't rated to do.)

The PMW-300 only speced out that their XAVC was up to 100mbps. If that's I-frame, that means no 1080 50p/60p.

Pretty unimpressive if that's the case. One of the main reasons for introducing XAVC was to provide the route to higher resolutions and framerates. They may just as well left it XDCAM422.

[Michael Warren]

I've done some research and discovered that these formats don't relate to the bit-rates in the way I expected. I expected Intra100 to always be approximately 100Mb/s, no matter what frame size or rate. This is not the case. AVC-Intra100 at 50p runs at a whopping 222Mb/s.

However, there are still some 1080p50/60 formats that come within Micro-P2's maximum write speed of 200Mb/s

In theory, the PX270 using Micro-P2 would be capable of supporting all the formats I've highlighted in yellow and pink. From the wording of the PX270 preliminary sales brochure, it sounds like the pink formats will be optional.

But also notice that the PX270 has a single full-sized P2 card slot. So it's anyone's guess what it might be able to handle.

A couple of other observations:

- Intra50 and G50 at 1080p50/60 seem to be arbitrarily missing from the specification and yet I can't see any technical reason why those formats couldn't be included. Maybe they are being saved for Ultra-AVC 2.


- Panasonic state that G25 produces similar quality to MPEG2 at 50Mb/s.

Comparing AVC-LongG25 to MPEG-2 compression adopted by other vendors with a bit rate
of 50Mbps and 8-bit 4:2:2 sampling, AVC-LongG25 archives comparable or better picture
quality with a 50% bit rate saving over MPEG-2.

- It sounds like there is some degree of compatibility between Micro-P2 and SD.

Precautions When Using SDHC/SDXC Memory Cards with the AJ-P2AD1G Memory Card Adapter
Only the DV, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, and AVC-Intra50 recording formats can be used when using the Memory Card Adapter on P2 Series
products. Memory cards of Class 10 or higher are recommended, but recording may not be possible with some cards.

If SD cards can be used in the P2 adapter, then it seems likely that SD cards could be used in the PX270, given the limitations on supported formats and reduced reliability.

Of course, none of this matters as we will have access to to full specs just before the PX270 is available to purchase.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Michael Warren

I've done some research and discovered that these formats don't relate to the bit-rates in the way I expected. I expected Intra100 to always be approximately 100Mb/s, no matter what frame size or rate. This is not the case. AVC-Intra100 at 50p runs at a whopping 222Mb/s.

I'd take that 222Mb/s figure to be a nominal 200Mbs, but it's correct that the whole AVC-Intra/AVC-Ultra nomenclature system is a confusing mess. Hence it would be possible to record 1080p/50 to microP2 in Class 100.

As evidence, look at the original press release for microP2. Panasonic Announces April Delivery of MicroP2 Cards at DV Info Net

That says: " The microP2 cards will guarantee data writing up to the class200 mode of AVC-ULTRA, the company’s newest compression system***. Then the note adds "***With the exception of 1080/60p/ 50p within class 200."

I take that to mean they WILL record the 222Mbs modes - 1080p/50 at Class 100, and 1080p/25, 720p/50 etc at Class 200, but WILL NOT record the 452Mbs modes such as 1080p/50 at Class 200.

[Michael Warren]

Originally Posted by David Heath

I take that to mean they WILL record the 222Mbs modes - 1080p/50 at Class 100, and 1080p/25, 720p/50 etc at Class 200, but WILL NOT record the 452Mbs modes such as 1080p/50 at Class 200.

It does sound like that.

I guess I need to find something else to concentrate on for a few months until Panasonic releases the full spec for the PX270. :)

[Jack Zhang]

It's been rumored that the GH4 might use the 222Mbps bitrate of Class 100 AVC-Ultra, but that might not be the AVC-Ultra codec.

The only XAVC camera that can do 1080p50/60 is the 4K cameras forthcoming. The only disadvantage is the consumer-grade headend in the 1/2.3'' 20 Megapixel sensor.

[Jack Zhang]

Post editing timed out so I had to double post.

Didn't catch the single full-size P2 slot. That opens it up to the 452Mbps Class 200 1080p50/60. (if implemented)

If there is 1080p50/60 in this camera, Sony better release a new PMW-200 at NAB, a PMW-250 with XAVC and XQD perhaps. (Having a single non adapter XQD slot with 1 or 2 SxS slots would be great)

[Joe Lawry]

I really wish companies would develop what is really important.. Optics. This new lens may have a great range.. but with no known manufacturer behind it who knows how good it will be.

For now i'll stick with my PMW200. The Fuji lens on the front is great although i just wish it was a bit better quality throughout the iris range.. I've gotten far to use to how amazing my C300 looks with L series zooms.

[Josh Bass]

Seems like from researching the lens was everyone's big complaint about the 250. I know for me it's what ultimately turned me off from it.

[Joe Lawry]

Actually looking into it.. its not a new lens. its the 250's lens.