Sony NEX-FS700R announced!

Piotr Wozniacki · September 13th, 2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri Zigany

How much is it in Zloty's? Going to Warszawa tonight! :)

You can get it for PLN 30k (body only, including 23% VAT)

Piotr Wozniacki · September 15th, 2013, 04:09 AM

So looks like I was right - nothing new:

NEX-FS700R (NEXFS700R) : Product Overview : United Kingdom : Sony Professional

Alister Chapman · September 15th, 2013, 01:35 PM

No not much new.

FS700R is the same as FS700 with firmware version 3.0.1.
FS700RH is the same as FS700 with firmware version 3.0.1 and comes with the SELP18-200mm servo zoom lens.

Sony have discovered a bug in FS700 firmware version 3.0, so if you had a 3.0 update you will need the camera to go back to Sony for an update to version 3.0.1. Sony Prime support will be in touch in Europe to arrange this free of charge.

If you are going to IBC you can take your FS700 to the show for a free, while you wait update. After IBC Sony Europe are reducing the price of the update to 250 Euro. You can't do the update yourself as it requires a special programming device to be connected to a special port inside the camera, there are only 3 of the programming devices in Europe at the moment.

Murray Christian · September 15th, 2013, 11:56 PM

I think all the FS700s I've seen for sale (U, E etc) have been '4K ready', saying they're updated and ready for an external recorder. (at least I think that's what they're saying)
So presumably ones with the new firmware will be coming out of the factory as well from now on?

Cees van Kempen · September 16th, 2013, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

No not much new.

FS700R is the same as FS700 with firmware version 3.0.1.
FS700RH is the same as FS700 with firmware version 3.0.1 and comes with the SELP18-200mm servo zoom lens.

Sony have discovered a bug in FS700 firmware version 3.0, so if you had a 3.0 update you will need the camera to go back to Sony for an update to version 3.0.1. Sony Prime support will be in touch in Europe to arrange this free of charge.

If you are going to IBC you can take your FS700 to the show for a free, while you wait update. After IBC Sony Europe are reducing the price of the update to 250 Euro. You can't do the update yourself as it requires a special programming device to be connected to a special port inside the camera, there are only 3 of the programming devices in Europe at the moment.

I suppose at IBC they will upgrade to version 3.0.1. and not to 3.0. ??

Dmitri Zigany · September 17th, 2013, 08:57 AM

Jack Zhang · September 17th, 2013, 09:01 AM

This should have been delayed to support SDHC/SDXC UHS-II and XAVC-S. This is being offered too soon as a minor upgrade. a 4K XAVC-S upgrade without XQD (meaning somehow they make XAVC-S work on SD cards) would totally work.

UHS-II cards are starting to be offered with 300MB/s peak read and write speeds. It shouldn't be hard to support the additional pins on the UHS-II cards compared to redesigning it for XQD.

Junior Pascual · September 22nd, 2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

No not much new.
... After IBC Sony Europe are reducing the price of the update to 250 Euro. You can't do the update yourself as it requires a special programming device to be connected to a special port inside the camera, there are only 3 of the programming devices in Europe at the moment.

Alister,

Do you know if Sony is going to reduce the price of the update in the US too? If so, when?

Aloha,
Jr. Pascual
49 Productions

Alister Chapman · September 23rd, 2013, 02:58 PM

Sorry, I don't know about the USA pricing.

The XAVC codec as in the Z100, F5 etc uses a new two stage hardware encoder chip. The first stage analyses the incoming scene so that the second stage encoder can be adjusted for the optimum settings for that particular image. This is quite different to most conventional encoders that use a fixed encoding scheme. The differences over the default encoder settings are then encoded within the video streams metadata so that when the video is decoded the decoder can adjust it's parameters so that the video is correctly decoded. I doubt very much that the FS700 has this dedicated two stage XAVC encoder chip, so I doubt we will ever see an XAVC capable FS700. That would need new hardware.

Cliff Totten · September 24th, 2013, 09:28 AM

Alister, that is pretty interesting.

So, the decoding process seems to be very complex. What does this mean for XAVC editing on the NLE side? I have not edited XAVC yet but will this decode process cause a huge CPU overhead on the desktop/post side?

Anyone know where I can download short XAVC samples? (or even XAVC-S?)

CT

Jack Zhang · September 24th, 2013, 01:35 PM

I was thinking at least XAVC-S would be a board swap so that you can have both AVCHD and XAVC-S recording on the same board, but from what it sounds like, that's not looking likely.

So it looks like a EA50 reboot with 4K may be more plausible.

Alister Chapman · September 24th, 2013, 03:17 PM

Decoding XAVC is not too processor intensive. It's I frame so no need to store long GoP's or calculate what should be in a frame using motion vectors etc. I find XAVC very easy to work with.

XAVC-S on the other hand may be a very different story. Not sure what the support for XAVC-S will be, at the moment XAVC is gaining momentum (Adobe Premiere will soon be able to write to XAVC), but XAVC-S is a very different beast and I think it may take a while to get supported properly.

James Hobert · September 24th, 2013, 03:38 PM

Well at least Sony XAVC Long GOP is supported natively in the upcoming Premiere Pro CC release in October. Adobe Premiere Pro CC October 2013 Release

But back to the FS700R...could a couple 700RH's conceivably be able to cut together nicely with the upcoming PXW-Z100? I know there's a DoF difference, but via picture settings somehow could it play nicely with the smaller sensor but higher bit rate Z100 primarily for event coverage? I know the Z100 isn't even out yet so this might be a guess, but I'm still curious.

Dmitri Zigany · September 24th, 2013, 03:54 PM

And I still want to know if Sony has lowered the price of the FS700R compared to the FS700E?
CVS (Creative Ventures Shop) has the FS700R for preorder at €5.695+VAT while CVP has the FS700E for €6.200+VAT. That is a €500 difference! I hope the price is lowered and not just CVS trying to cash in on early buyers... Anyone know?

Jack Zhang · September 24th, 2013, 03:56 PM

I expect the 700's 4K will have less CA right off the bat and less bayer artifacts if you use a good de-bayer algorithm to process the 4K RAW from the camera. I compared Alister's summer footage with the daylight footage from the AX1 from the sample video, and the CA and noise was certainly higher in AX1. Nighttime bayer bloom is very present in nighttime footage from the AX1.

The very least they could do without a codec swap is HDMI 2.0. Uncompressed HDMI 2.0 with 4k60p support would allow a single connection to external recorders without several SDI connections going to an external recorder. (since 4K RAW is disallowed to everything except the AXS recorders)

September 15th, 2013, 04:09 AM	#17
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! So looks like I was right - nothing new: NEX-FS700R (NEXFS700R) : Product Overview : United Kingdom : Sony Professional __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

September 15th, 2013, 01:35 PM	#18
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! No not much new. FS700R is the same as FS700 with firmware version 3.0.1. FS700RH is the same as FS700 with firmware version 3.0.1 and comes with the SELP18-200mm servo zoom lens. Sony have discovered a bug in FS700 firmware version 3.0, so if you had a 3.0 update you will need the camera to go back to Sony for an update to version 3.0.1. Sony Prime support will be in touch in Europe to arrange this free of charge. If you are going to IBC you can take your FS700 to the show for a free, while you wait update. After IBC Sony Europe are reducing the price of the update to 250 Euro. You can't do the update yourself as it requires a special programming device to be connected to a special port inside the camera, there are only 3 of the programming devices in Europe at the moment. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 15th, 2013, 11:56 PM	#19
Murray Christian Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 240	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! I think all the FS700s I've seen for sale (U, E etc) have been '4K ready', saying they're updated and ready for an external recorder. (at least I think that's what they're saying) So presumably ones with the new firmware will be coming out of the factory as well from now on?

September 17th, 2013, 08:57 AM	#21
Dmitri Zigany Major Player Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 286	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! Sony Professional: IBC 2013 - Answering your questions on the FS700R/RH camcorders on Vimeo

September 17th, 2013, 09:01 AM	#22
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! This should have been delayed to support SDHC/SDXC UHS-II and XAVC-S. This is being offered too soon as a minor upgrade. a 4K XAVC-S upgrade without XQD (meaning somehow they make XAVC-S work on SD cards) would totally work. UHS-II cards are starting to be offered with 300MB/s peak read and write speeds. It shouldn't be hard to support the additional pins on the UHS-II cards compared to redesigning it for XQD.

September 23rd, 2013, 02:58 PM	#24
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! Sorry, I don't know about the USA pricing. The XAVC codec as in the Z100, F5 etc uses a new two stage hardware encoder chip. The first stage analyses the incoming scene so that the second stage encoder can be adjusted for the optimum settings for that particular image. This is quite different to most conventional encoders that use a fixed encoding scheme. The differences over the default encoder settings are then encoded within the video streams metadata so that when the video is decoded the decoder can adjust it's parameters so that the video is correctly decoded. I doubt very much that the FS700 has this dedicated two stage XAVC encoder chip, so I doubt we will ever see an XAVC capable FS700. That would need new hardware. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 24th, 2013, 09:28 AM	#25
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! Alister, that is pretty interesting. So, the decoding process seems to be very complex. What does this mean for XAVC editing on the NLE side? I have not edited XAVC yet but will this decode process cause a huge CPU overhead on the desktop/post side? Anyone know where I can download short XAVC samples? (or even XAVC-S?) CT

September 24th, 2013, 01:35 PM	#26
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! I was thinking at least XAVC-S would be a board swap so that you can have both AVCHD and XAVC-S recording on the same board, but from what it sounds like, that's not looking likely. So it looks like a EA50 reboot with 4K may be more plausible.

September 24th, 2013, 03:17 PM	#27
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! Decoding XAVC is not too processor intensive. It's I frame so no need to store long GoP's or calculate what should be in a frame using motion vectors etc. I find XAVC very easy to work with. XAVC-S on the other hand may be a very different story. Not sure what the support for XAVC-S will be, at the moment XAVC is gaining momentum (Adobe Premiere will soon be able to write to XAVC), but XAVC-S is a very different beast and I think it may take a while to get supported properly. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 24th, 2013, 03:38 PM	#28
James Hobert Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 67	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! Well at least Sony XAVC Long GOP is supported natively in the upcoming Premiere Pro CC release in October. Adobe Premiere Pro CC October 2013 Release But back to the FS700R...could a couple 700RH's conceivably be able to cut together nicely with the upcoming PXW-Z100? I know there's a DoF difference, but via picture settings somehow could it play nicely with the smaller sensor but higher bit rate Z100 primarily for event coverage? I know the Z100 isn't even out yet so this might be a guess, but I'm still curious.

September 24th, 2013, 03:54 PM	#29
Dmitri Zigany Major Player Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 286	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! And I still want to know if Sony has lowered the price of the FS700R compared to the FS700E? CVS (Creative Ventures Shop) has the FS700R for preorder at €5.695+VAT while CVP has the FS700E for €6.200+VAT. That is a €500 difference! I hope the price is lowered and not just CVS trying to cash in on early buyers... Anyone know?

September 24th, 2013, 03:56 PM	#30
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Sony NEX-FS700R announced! I expect the 700's 4K will have less CA right off the bat and less bayer artifacts if you use a good de-bayer algorithm to process the 4K RAW from the camera. I compared Alister's summer footage with the daylight footage from the AX1 from the sample video, and the CA and noise was certainly higher in AX1. Nighttime bayer bloom is very present in nighttime footage from the AX1. The very least they could do without a codec swap is HDMI 2.0. Uncompressed HDMI 2.0 with 4k60p support would allow a single connection to external recorders without several SDI connections going to an external recorder. (since 4K RAW is disallowed to everything except the AXS recorders)