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#106 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,841
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
I don't want to go off topic but since some of us are talking about the viability of 4K in the Home entertainment market I thought this might factor in one's thinking about camera purchase.
http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/628-you-can-now-buy-a-50-4k-tv-for-$1299 And the 4K $1299 monitor at Tiger Direct. Who knows what the quality is or whether it's just "spec bait." Seiki 50 Class 2160p 120Hz LED HDTV - 3840 x 2160, 16:9, 120Hz, 5000:1 Native, 6.5ms, 3x HDMI, VGA (SE50UY04) at TigerDirect.com |
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#107 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gilroy, CA
Posts: 398
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
Quote:
I went back and re-read your post to see if I'm missing something. Did you really mean to say there is no audio system or battery in the BMPC? And that it must have external monitors and cages before it can be used? I understand you sell Canons but most here know those aren't accurate statements. BTW, the only difference between XLR and a 1/4" TRS balanced cables are the plugs, otherwise they're identical. |
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#108 | |
Wrangler
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 8,314
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
Disclaimer: I own this camera, so my opinion comes from first hand, in field production use.
Simon Don't mean to jump on you but there is a flaw in your logic... it doesn't matter that they've only been making cameras for 1 year because there are decades of camera building r&d to draw upon. It's like they built a camera without ever having used one. It's one of the most poorly designed cameras I've ever held. Quote:
Next, implying that I'm naive, spoiled and entitled, is, well... naive. I'm non-partisan, anti-fanboy and unlike most don't give my opinion on something unless I actually own it. Also, I don't care about the price. $3000... $5000... $15,000... if a camera is poorly designed, it's poorly designed. The places this camera fails are all simple and cheap to fix. Would they add to the price? Sure, a few bucks. But personally I'd rather pay $500 more for a camera that is a lot more functional. Let me put it this way... Someone built a Ferrari for $15,000... but they put the gas pedal in front of the passenger and the shifter in the back seat.
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Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com |
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#109 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Incline Village, Nevada
Posts: 604
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
"Let me put it this way...
Someone built a Ferrari for $15,000... but they put the gas pedal in front of the passenger and the shifter in the back seat." That analogy in reference to the BMCC is nonsense. If you don't like the form factor, that's fine - a matter of personal taste. But to intimate that the BMCC is not a functional piece of equipment is ridiculous. It is very capable of making gorgeous pictures. I have personally used this camera for a couple of months now and find it one of the better cameras I have used because: 1. It can be rigged out with cage, matte box, rails, follow focus, pre-amp, v-lock or Anton-Bauer batteries to make for a very capable tripod rig that makes some awesome footage 2. Or you can leave it stripped down to capture some really nice footage from locations where almost no one asks to see your permit and subjects don't get the jitters being shot by a Red or Alexa rig. It is clear Dylan, that you don't like the camera and that is fine. But to lead folks into thinking the camera is not functional with that analogy is just not accurate. It IS a very fine tool that records 13 stops of latitude, 12 bit raw as well as ProRes and DNx, all in an inboard recorder that uses many off the shelf SSD drives. Very revolutionary. |
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#110 |
Major Player
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 344
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
Speaking to a distributor who just came back from miptv, she had a few conversations regarding 4k. Just chatting but she mentioned on their end, a producer who has a 4k master may in fact increase the years of sales generated by two to three times.
If you're producing for TV, a 4k camera at 4k$ might make financial sense.
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#111 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
Quote:
My $.02 - it all comes down to what you do with your cameras. If, as seems to be the case with many (most?) of the original BMC buyers, you're all about indie film making with a future hope for return, then rigging and utilizing the plusses of the BMC make sense 2.5 or 4k. If you're out in the field producing billable projects everyday or every week then it's a different set of considerations. For instance we were so disappointed in the AVCHD and lack of 60p on the C100 that we nixed it and bought a pair of GH3s to add 60p. But now that the price is $5500 and we have the slow motion - the C-100 looks a lot more attractive because of it's ability to get such a great in camera look. We've just signed two deals that will have us in the field shooting 14 promotional films in all kinds of outdoor conditions over the next 7 months, in addition to a few TV campaigns. As a small company, the first thing I thought was "there's no way I can spend the time CCing all of this work for delivery the way I have the last several projects." Suddenly, getting a great in camera look and having a super fast, efficient post work flow has huge advantages...maybe even critical ones for pulling it all off. Despite my frustration with what I see as intentional crippling of their technology, Canon delivers a very solid in-camera look with the C line and very functional camera systems that also make a big difference producing dozens of hours of footage on deadline. My assessment is this. The C camera runs circles around the BMC in terms of design, ergonomics and fast production and probably equals the IQ as far as current 1080 deliverables. And delivers right out of the box for editing if you like. The BMC is great if you want/need to spend a good deal of time in post, have time for the extra workflow issues and are working more on set or with more controlled circumstances. It delivers a beautiful image but it's a pretty basic production tool. The Canon C camera is a highly evolved, highly efficient production tool that provides a great image. The 8 bit vs Raw comparison only matters if you want/need to do a lot in post, and even though I've spent more time doing so, I often miss "just shooting the damn thing" and moving on to the next project. |
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#112 |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 292
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
Where did you see that the C100 has the ability to shoot 60fps or slow motion?
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#113 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,841
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
I'd add the following unusual observation.
Looking at both the B&H and Adorama sites the Canon C100, C300, C500 are all listed specifically as "Non Returnable." I find that an unusual policy. Given it's specific to these cameras and not other Canon cameras (or other cameras generally) something must be a foot. This can also enter into someone's purchasing decision. It's not clear why this is happening but it's certainly a consideration when one has to consider ROI on their camera purchase. |
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#114 |
Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
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#115 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 253
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
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#116 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 292
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
Quote:
"But now that the price is $5500 and we have the slow motion - the C-100 looks a lot more attractive because of it's ability to get such a great in camera look." |
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#117 |
Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 273
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
The GH cams give the slo mo so they can concentrate of pic quality with the C100s. We have used Hero 3 Blacks in narrow mode to get slo mo and time lapse to complement out team's C100 footage.
Last edited by Philip Lipetz; April 15th, 2013 at 10:00 AM. |
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#118 | |
Trustee
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,719
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
Quote:
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#119 |
Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gilroy, CA
Posts: 398
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
If I could get a new Ferrari for $15k, even if the gas pedal was in the trunk, I'd have already ordered at least two. So in some ways that is a good analogy for the BMPC.
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#120 |
Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
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Re: New from Black Magic Design - 4K Cinema Camera
You have to read the whole post Bob <g>. I say how we bought a pair of GH3s for 60p and now that we have slow motion.... I actually mean "we" when I say we...not the royal we.
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