New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders

David Johns · July 8th, 2013, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Cowan

The AF face detect mechanism struggled to stay on the face of the presenter who was pretty much static and well lit at the time. When we looked at the footage in FCP at 100%, it was difficult to say where the focus was but it certainly wasn't the subjects face.

How weird - like Jeff, my experience with the XA20 has been the total opposite. The Auto Face tracking works like a charm even in some pretty poor lighting situations.

My only thought would be that I noticed the auto-focus was very slow on the low-bitrate 25fps mp4 recording settings, so I wonder if you had the cam on a less-than-optimal setting?

Regards,
Dave

Byron Jones · July 8th, 2013, 01:50 PM

For those testing the autofocus, how does it perform with the subject moving? Specifically with the subject moving across being followed by a camera pan, and with the subject moving directly toward or away from the camera.

Has anyone used it to record actual people in low light yet? I'm curious how it would hold up in a dark reception venue. On paper, this is looking to be a good second angle cam for weddings. At this price, I hope it is.

Neil Preston · July 8th, 2013, 02:03 PM

Thanks Jeff for the help. You're quite right, my statement about selling my HPX174 because of its bulky tele-converter and to then talk about a cam with a 10x zoom doesnt make any sense at all.

Sounds like apart from the white balance probem you're reasonably happy with the xa20. How have you found image quality generally? Although good low light performance is obviously a great plus, most of my important shooting is in good outdoor lighting and thats where I want the best image qualilty.

Availability in South Africa is expected in July, so hopefully we will see stock in Cape Town fairly soon. I have in fact placed an order.

Jeff Harper · July 8th, 2013, 03:24 PM

I suspect you'll be happy Neil. Image quality is very good, in my opinion.

Luis A. Diaz · July 8th, 2013, 03:56 PM

Can anyone who has received the XA-20 and used it comment on the improvements of the image stabilization over the XA-10, that is another strong consideration that I want to have before i make the upgrade.

Thank You
Luis

Martin Cowan · July 8th, 2013, 05:17 PM

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your input on this. All of our tests so far have been at the highest bit rate settings in either MP4 (35mb) or AVCHD 50p.

It may well be that we have a faulty unit. Our XA10 had to go back to Canon because there were issues with how Final Cut read the files. Canon fixed it with a firmware upgrade and all was correct after that. So I am a little sceptical about "First Batch New Cameras"

As for the CMOS rolling shutter issue. This "Jello" effect is exaggerated when CMOS cameras are subjected to vibration, hence my comment about the IS system not helping in the XA25.

We also carried out some further tests today, working with the files in Final Cut Pro 7 ( our preferred NLE)
It appears that the Log & Transfer tool in FCP7 does not recognise the new high res AVCHD files produced on this camera. In fact it will only recognise the 50i stuff thus making the new AVCHD 50p codec redundant on this camera for all those out there working with Final Cut Pro 6/7

Work in progress !

Ron Evans · July 8th, 2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Cowan

Hi Dave,

It appears that the Log & Transfer tool in FCP7 does not recognise the new high res AVCHD files produced on this camera. In fact it will only recognise the 50i stuff thus making the new AVCHD 50p codec redundant on this camera for all those out there working with Final Cut Pro 6/7

Work in progress !

I believe that FCPX will recognize the files and then you could convert to ProRes for use in FCP6/7. I am all PC so this info is only from a friend who has used this approach with Sony files which are the same 28Mbps LPCM audio.

Ron Evans

Dan Tod · July 9th, 2013, 02:20 AM

Just unpacked my XA20 and handle unit.

One observation: even though the batteries are different between my G10 and the XA20, the charger charges all sets of batteries. I was lucky enough to be able to pick up a BP-828 battery when I picked up the camera, and the staff informed me that it could be charged using the same charger used with the XA10/G10 etc. (Model number is CG-800D in Japan.) Battery is happily charging as I write.

Can't wait to get started with it.

Neil Preston · July 9th, 2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I suspect you'll be happy Neil. Image quality is very good, in my opinion.

Thanks Jeff, looking forward to getting mine. Cape Town supplier says SA is only likely to get stock towards end July, so I'll just have to be patient. Lots to learn from you guys here and the manual in the meantime.

David Johns · July 9th, 2013, 10:53 AM

Four deeply, deeply annoying things about the ought-to-be-wonderful WiFi / FTP functions:-

1) You only have the choice of a) Transmit All files on card or b) Transmit All 'new' files (those you have not already FTPd). In most cases I'd contend those options will be equal and in both cases I contend it's precisely not what you want. I need to be able to select specific files and send those, just as I can with viewing files for playback or deletion.

As implemented, my workaround is a) film to Card A only. b) Wipe Card B. c) Copy required files from Card A to Card B. d) Use either FTP option to send back what's now on Card B.

This is very tedious and frustrates the point of a fast-turnaround FTP send for newsgathering purposes.

2) Although you can configure 5 WiFi access points, you can only configure 1 FTP server. As I have different servers depending on what job I'm on, this is frustrating. I'd like 5 FTP server options too, please.

3) The progress bar on the FTP transfer has, on my tests, gone simply from 'none' to 'done' in one instant, which means all the while it's transferring my file it looks like it's stuck ... then suddenly it's done. This is rather disconcerting when sending stuff in the field - you need a moving indicator that suggests data transfer is actually underway, for confidence.

4) Despite asking you what directory you want the FTPd files put into on the remote server, Canon has seen fit to assume you actually want them put in a dated subdirectory of your chosen directory (Canon, if I wanted that, I'd have specified that!). This causes me a problem because we have a file-import utility 'watching' a specific directory on our FTP server for any incoming files, and then converts and moves them onto our Avid system. Because the XA20 insists on putting the files in a subdirectory, our watch utility doesn't pick them up so I have to phone back to base and get it done manually.

Actually there's a 5th, more minor, point. For speed, I'd like the first option in the playback MENU screen to be WiFi so I can get to it without scroll-and-press. At the moment the first option is Data-Code.

Canon, are you reading this? These are all things that could be fixed with minor software upgrade and I'd be really, really happy to provide input to this kind of improvement!!

Cheers
Dave

Byron Jones · July 9th, 2013, 01:00 PM

B&H now showing the XA20 in stock. I'm excited to see some more reviews/footage.

Allan Black · July 9th, 2013, 04:04 PM

Dave, others must be rankled about those points you listed ^ .. suggest you send them all off to Canon.
They might offer to include you on their list of beta testers.

Canon UK - Support

Cheers.

David Johns · July 10th, 2013, 01:42 PM

I would but I don't think Canon UK's support team will be talking to me at the moment after I sent them a very angry email after they'd told me the old-style batteries would "definitely" be compatible with the XA20 which of course they aren't.

(And, when I first wrote to tell them their advice was wrong they replied - clearly without reading down the original support ticket - "we don't know which camera you have but here's our compatibility list" despite me having made it clear from the outset I was considering the XA20. This kind of hopeless support really winds me up)

Anyone got Canon USA's support email address instead...?!

Regards
Dave

Allan Black · July 10th, 2013, 04:53 PM

Take your pick >> Canon Global : Support .. tho I'd go direct to the source in Japan with this.

For any complaints about camera features always start with, 'My many professional industry friends and I, are horrified to find .. etc etc.

Cheers.

Paul Rickford · July 11th, 2013, 03:22 AM

[QUOTE=David Johns;1804174]I would but I don't think Canon UK's support team will be talking to me at the moment after I sent them a very angry email after they'd told me the old-style batteries would "definitely" be compatible with the XA20 which of course they aren't.

Agreed Canon UK got this wrong, I'm the first to research everything to the last detail, but I convinced myself that the BP-819 would fit as most of the main UK dealers ran an offer during May for a free BP-819 with the XA20/25 with pre-orders!

July 8th, 2013, 01:50 PM	#182
Byron Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Luckey, OH Posts: 196	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders For those testing the autofocus, how does it perform with the subject moving? Specifically with the subject moving across being followed by a camera pan, and with the subject moving directly toward or away from the camera. Has anyone used it to record actual people in low light yet? I'm curious how it would hold up in a dark reception venue. On paper, this is looking to be a good second angle cam for weddings. At this price, I hope it is.

July 8th, 2013, 02:03 PM	#183
Neil Preston New Boot Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Somerset West, South Africa Posts: 16	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders Thanks Jeff for the help. You're quite right, my statement about selling my HPX174 because of its bulky tele-converter and to then talk about a cam with a 10x zoom doesnt make any sense at all. Sounds like apart from the white balance probem you're reasonably happy with the xa20. How have you found image quality generally? Although good low light performance is obviously a great plus, most of my important shooting is in good outdoor lighting and thats where I want the best image qualilty. Availability in South Africa is expected in July, so hopefully we will see stock in Cape Town fairly soon. I have in fact placed an order.

July 8th, 2013, 03:24 PM	#184
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders I suspect you'll be happy Neil. Image quality is very good, in my opinion.

July 8th, 2013, 03:56 PM	#185
Luis A. Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Miami, Florida. USA. Posts: 138	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders Can anyone who has received the XA-20 and used it comment on the improvements of the image stabilization over the XA-10, that is another strong consideration that I want to have before i make the upgrade. Thank You Luis

July 8th, 2013, 05:17 PM	#186
Martin Cowan Tourist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 4	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders Hi Dave, Thanks for your input on this. All of our tests so far have been at the highest bit rate settings in either MP4 (35mb) or AVCHD 50p. It may well be that we have a faulty unit. Our XA10 had to go back to Canon because there were issues with how Final Cut read the files. Canon fixed it with a firmware upgrade and all was correct after that. So I am a little sceptical about "First Batch New Cameras" As for the CMOS rolling shutter issue. This "Jello" effect is exaggerated when CMOS cameras are subjected to vibration, hence my comment about the IS system not helping in the XA25. We also carried out some further tests today, working with the files in Final Cut Pro 7 ( our preferred NLE) It appears that the Log & Transfer tool in FCP7 does not recognise the new high res AVCHD files produced on this camera. In fact it will only recognise the 50i stuff thus making the new AVCHD 50p codec redundant on this camera for all those out there working with Final Cut Pro 6/7 Work in progress !

July 9th, 2013, 02:20 AM	#188
Dan Tod Tourist Join Date: May 2013 Location: Japan Posts: 2	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders Just unpacked my XA20 and handle unit. One observation: even though the batteries are different between my G10 and the XA20, the charger charges all sets of batteries. I was lucky enough to be able to pick up a BP-828 battery when I picked up the camera, and the staff informed me that it could be charged using the same charger used with the XA10/G10 etc. (Model number is CG-800D in Japan.) Battery is happily charging as I write. Can't wait to get started with it.

July 9th, 2013, 10:53 AM	#190
David Johns Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Maidstone, Kent, UK Posts: 190	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders Four deeply, deeply annoying things about the ought-to-be-wonderful WiFi / FTP functions:- 1) You only have the choice of a) Transmit All files on card or b) Transmit All 'new' files (those you have not already FTPd). In most cases I'd contend those options will be equal and in both cases I contend it's precisely not what you want. I need to be able to select specific files and send those, just as I can with viewing files for playback or deletion. As implemented, my workaround is a) film to Card A only. b) Wipe Card B. c) Copy required files from Card A to Card B. d) Use either FTP option to send back what's now on Card B. This is very tedious and frustrates the point of a fast-turnaround FTP send for newsgathering purposes. 2) Although you can configure 5 WiFi access points, you can only configure 1 FTP server. As I have different servers depending on what job I'm on, this is frustrating. I'd like 5 FTP server options too, please. 3) The progress bar on the FTP transfer has, on my tests, gone simply from 'none' to 'done' in one instant, which means all the while it's transferring my file it looks like it's stuck ... then suddenly it's done. This is rather disconcerting when sending stuff in the field - you need a moving indicator that suggests data transfer is actually underway, for confidence. 4) Despite asking you what directory you want the FTPd files put into on the remote server, Canon has seen fit to assume you actually want them put in a dated subdirectory of your chosen directory (Canon, if I wanted that, I'd have specified that!). This causes me a problem because we have a file-import utility 'watching' a specific directory on our FTP server for any incoming files, and then converts and moves them onto our Avid system. Because the XA20 insists on putting the files in a subdirectory, our watch utility doesn't pick them up so I have to phone back to base and get it done manually. Actually there's a 5th, more minor, point. For speed, I'd like the first option in the playback MENU screen to be WiFi so I can get to it without scroll-and-press. At the moment the first option is Data-Code. Canon, are you reading this? These are all things that could be fixed with minor software upgrade and I'd be really, really happy to provide input to this kind of improvement!! Cheers Dave __________________ www.tubeshooter.co.uk www.youtube.com/ukairscape and www.youtube.com/tubeshootermag

July 9th, 2013, 01:00 PM	#191
Byron Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Luckey, OH Posts: 196	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders B&H now showing the XA20 in stock. I'm excited to see some more reviews/footage.

July 9th, 2013, 04:04 PM	#192
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,929	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders Dave, others must be rankled about those points you listed ^ .. suggest you send them all off to Canon. They might offer to include you on their list of beta testers. Canon UK - Support Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

July 10th, 2013, 01:42 PM	#193
David Johns Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Maidstone, Kent, UK Posts: 190	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders I would but I don't think Canon UK's support team will be talking to me at the moment after I sent them a very angry email after they'd told me the old-style batteries would "definitely" be compatible with the XA20 which of course they aren't. (And, when I first wrote to tell them their advice was wrong they replied - clearly without reading down the original support ticket - "we don't know which camera you have but here's our compatibility list" despite me having made it clear from the outset I was considering the XA20. This kind of hopeless support really winds me up) Anyone got Canon USA's support email address instead...?! Regards Dave __________________ www.tubeshooter.co.uk www.youtube.com/ukairscape and www.youtube.com/tubeshootermag

July 10th, 2013, 04:53 PM	#194
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,929	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders Take your pick >> Canon Global : Support .. tho I'd go direct to the source in Japan with this. For any complaints about camera features always start with, 'My many professional industry friends and I, are horrified to find .. etc etc. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

July 11th, 2013, 03:22 AM	#195
Paul Rickford Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: POOLE, UK Posts: 158	Re: New Canon XA25, XA20 and HF G30 camcorders [QUOTE=David Johns;1804174]I would but I don't think Canon UK's support team will be talking to me at the moment after I sent them a very angry email after they'd told me the old-style batteries would "definitely" be compatible with the XA20 which of course they aren't. Agreed Canon UK got this wrong, I'm the first to research everything to the last detail, but I convinced myself that the BP-819 would fit as most of the main UK dealers ran an offer during May for a free BP-819 with the XA20/25 with pre-orders!