Nikon D800 with video features

Emmanuel Plakiotis · February 19th, 2012, 01:49 PM

Jerry, I think at this point, without full understanding of their image processing, nobody can be certain.

To add my instinct on the previous HDMI debate, I think the quality of the signal depends on the amount and the quality of processing, before the uncompressed "spit out". Again is a wait and see situation.
My most favorable feature of the D4/800 is their windowing capacity. Essentially an 1.5X extender without fstop or quality loss. Nikon lack of video division gave us two very useful tools to play with...

I think this is future of cameras. Cameras that can go from FF to S16(2/3inch) or even 1/3 would be ubiquitous in the future. Manufacturers won't like it, but eventually they have to comply to the forces of market.

Pete Balistrieri · February 25th, 2012, 01:12 PM

The d800 vs d4 debate when it comes to video is the one I look forward to learning more about. When reading about both cameras you see a lot of mention of both cameras having essentially the same video specs. This would seemingly translate into a conclusion that for the independent micro-budget filmmaker that is considering these cameras to purchase, that it would be a no-brainer to go with the half-price d800 over the d4. Since the video specs are the same.

BUT

It would seem to me that as a micro-budget filmmaker without access to as much lighting as one would like - the fatter pixels of the d4 would provide better low light shooting outside at night, dimly lit night interiors etc. When moving about with only a china ball and a c-stand I think I would want the sensor of the d4 on my side to maximize the lack of additional equipment.

So while it seems like the d800 is better suited because of the price tag - my thoughts are that the d4 with one more crop setting than the d800 [fewer lenses], and better low light, and wireless control [small crew] that it is the d4 that will actually be the indie-filmmakers choice.

Should be interesting to learn more about them both and see if any of that ends up to be the case.

Jad Meouchy · February 25th, 2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis

My most favorable feature of the D4/800 is their windowing capacity. Essentially an 1.5X extender without fstop or quality loss. Nikon lack of video division gave us two very useful tools to play with...

I think this is future of cameras. Cameras that can go from FF to S16(2/3inch) or even 1/3 would be ubiquitous in the future. Manufacturers won't like it, but eventually they have to comply to the forces of market.

Canon t3i has this out of the box, 3x-10x windowing and you can adjust it anywhere in between, even 'zoom' while you are shooting. This was a feature I requested on a longshot about a year and a half ago and they actually implemented it..

Jacques Mersereau · February 25th, 2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Balistrieri

So while it seems like the d800 is better suited because of the price tag - my thoughts are that the d4 with one more crop setting than the d800 [fewer lenses], and better low light, and wireless control [small crew] that it is the d4 that will actually be the indie-filmmakers choice.

Should be interesting to learn more about them both and see if any of that ends up to be the case.

Agreed. I eagerly await test results from professional cinematographers as to the pluses and minus of the new Nikons. One of my colleagues in another department has put in for a D4 and a Sound Devices 240 recorder. That should be a sweet rig - ProRes and two SD mic preamps with limiters - YES!

Does anyone know if Nikon has built in the possibility of being able to control a D4 via an iPad app? Being able to program rack and control *fine* focus remotely while monitoring HD would be huge.

Mark Kenfield · February 25th, 2012, 07:22 PM

Does anyone know if Nikon DSLRs are able to shoot video with their Active D-Lighting curve applied? Would be a great option for increasing DR in the video if it did.

Emmanuel Plakiotis · February 26th, 2012, 02:12 AM

There is a Q&A about the D800 and D4 on NIkon's Facebook France page:
https://www.facebook.com/NikonFrance...90322544333196

Hit the translation button to get the juice.

Ps you have to be Facebook member to see this

Jacques Mersereau · February 26th, 2012, 07:56 AM

A few tidbits on that FB thing, but I will look forward to some real world cinematographers putting both the D800 and D4 through their paces. :-D

Jerry Manco · February 27th, 2012, 06:50 PM

Since my last posting in which I was asking if there are any differences in the quality of the video between the D800 and the D4, I have since changed my mind. I cancelled my D800 order and went to the D4.As yet there is still no definite distinction of video quality between these 2 camera's, I know I would have an inferior stills camera in the D800 to the D4. In the tech specs that Nikon issued on how to shoot stills with the D800 did it for me. It was all about motion blur(should use tripod) and not recommended to stop down past f8, all due to the mega pixel count. Not what I wanted to hear, not the way I shoot stills. Thanks for the previous postings, alway's listening in to your comments.

http://imaging.jlmstudio.com/

Jacques Mersereau · February 27th, 2012, 07:03 PM

Excellent point Jerry. I didn't pick up on it. It makes sense that if a sensor has as many more photosites as does the D800, that tiny movements or vibration (caused by any number of things, from shaky hands to wind) will present huge challenges in deriving a sharp image. At this point it's conjecture, but I think you made a good decision.

Mark Kenfield · February 27th, 2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Manco

Since my last posting in which I was asking if there are any differences in the quality of the video between the D800 and the D4, I have since changed my mind. I cancelled my D800 order and went to the D4.As yet there is still no definite distinction of video quality between these 2 camera's, I know I would have an inferior stills camera in the D800 to the D4. In the tech specs that Nikon issued on how to shoot stills with the D800 did it for me. It was all about motion blur(should use tripod) and not recommended to stop down past f8, all due to the mega pixel count. Not what I wanted to hear, not the way I shoot stills. Thanks for the previous postings, alway's listening in to your comments.

Jerry Manco Photography and Video ? Niagara and Southern Ontario

Jerry I think you're forgetting that the apparent sharpness of the image is all relative to your viewing size.

The issues of vibration and diffraction affecting the sharpness of the D800's image is only at the per-pixel level (i.e. 36mpx viewed at 100%).

Viewed at the same size as images from the D4's 16mpx, there will be no apparent lack of sharpness or detail in a D800 image shot the with the same level of vibration or diffraction as the D4 - even if, at the pixel level, some of that detail has been smeared.

So the resolution doesn't present any real issues for the image, it just requires more precision if you want to get the absolute maximum out of it (on a pixel level).

Jacques Mersereau · February 28th, 2012, 07:26 AM

<<<Viewed at the same size as images from the D4's 16mpx, there will be no apparent lack of sharpness or detail in a D800 image shot the with the same level of vibration or diffraction as the D4 - even if, at the pixel level, some of that detail has been smeared.>>>

Can you more thoroughly explain why so, because on the surface it might logically appear that more smeared pixels - millions of them - would produce huge issues in processing a sharp video image.

That said, I'll leave this to the sensor engineers.

Jerry Manco · February 28th, 2012, 08:30 AM

It's good to hear this(Mark Kenfield's reply) because I'm no tech guy. It's too bad I don't have a camera in my hands to do my own tests.I haven't seen any stills samples to date shot with the D800 or D800e that have blown me away. I still think the D4 is a more solid camera for stills shooting, and probably a little better in video as well, more features anyway, could be wrong.My problem is that I have some large shooting assignments starting this spring , half of it is video, and I would like to be shooting it with a new camera(1080p,8 bit 4:2:2). And then again, will these camera's be delivered on time.

Mark Kenfield · February 28th, 2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacques Mersereau

<<<Viewed at the same size as images from the D4's 16mpx, there will be no apparent lack of sharpness or detail in a D800 image shot the with the same level of vibration or diffraction as the D4 - even if, at the pixel level, some of that detail has been smeared.>>>

Can you more thoroughly explain why so, because on the surface it might logically appear that more smeared pixels - millions of them - would produce huge issues in processing a sharp video image.

That said, I'll leave this to the sensor engineers.

Try to think of it in terms of pixels (I'm exaggerating the effect here, but it should make it easier to understand):

Here's two versions of the same image, the left-hand version is half the resolution of the right-hand version (hence the larger pixels when viewed at the same size):

http://i.imgur.com/VcmxW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/iaPBo.jpg

Because of this difference in pixel density/detail, even if the full-resolution version were to have a substantial smearing of it's detail on a pixel level (due to vibration or diffraction), the amount of detail resolved would still be at least as high as the half-resolution image with it's much larger pixels.

Jerry Manco · February 28th, 2012, 12:15 PM

Hey Mark, forget about the stills for a moment. Between these 2 camera's(D4,D800), same size chip, same features, one 16 megapixels and the other 36. Does one have an advantage of better video quality over another. Did I say that right.

Mark Kenfield · February 28th, 2012, 06:02 PM

Without knowing how the HD image is extracted from the sensors, it's impossible to say at the moment. We'll just have to wait and see some raw footage to see how they compare.

February 19th, 2012, 01:49 PM	#76
Emmanuel Plakiotis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 344	Re: Nikon D800 with video features Jerry, I think at this point, without full understanding of their image processing, nobody can be certain. To add my instinct on the previous HDMI debate, I think the quality of the signal depends on the amount and the quality of processing, before the uncompressed "spit out". Again is a wait and see situation. My most favorable feature of the D4/800 is their windowing capacity. Essentially an 1.5X extender without fstop or quality loss. Nikon lack of video division gave us two very useful tools to play with... I think this is future of cameras. Cameras that can go from FF to S16(2/3inch) or even 1/3 would be ubiquitous in the future. Manufacturers won't like it, but eventually they have to comply to the forces of market.

February 25th, 2012, 01:12 PM	#77
Pete Balistrieri Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 26	Re: Nikon D800 with video features The d800 vs d4 debate when it comes to video is the one I look forward to learning more about. When reading about both cameras you see a lot of mention of both cameras having essentially the same video specs. This would seemingly translate into a conclusion that for the independent micro-budget filmmaker that is considering these cameras to purchase, that it would be a no-brainer to go with the half-price d800 over the d4. Since the video specs are the same. BUT It would seem to me that as a micro-budget filmmaker without access to as much lighting as one would like - the fatter pixels of the d4 would provide better low light shooting outside at night, dimly lit night interiors etc. When moving about with only a china ball and a c-stand I think I would want the sensor of the d4 on my side to maximize the lack of additional equipment. So while it seems like the d800 is better suited because of the price tag - my thoughts are that the d4 with one more crop setting than the d800 [fewer lenses], and better low light, and wireless control [small crew] that it is the d4 that will actually be the indie-filmmakers choice. Should be interesting to learn more about them both and see if any of that ends up to be the case.

February 25th, 2012, 07:22 PM	#80
Mark Kenfield Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 470	Re: Nikon D800 with video features Does anyone know if Nikon DSLRs are able to shoot video with their Active D-Lighting curve applied? Would be a great option for increasing DR in the video if it did.

February 26th, 2012, 02:12 AM	#81
Emmanuel Plakiotis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 344	Re: Nikon D800 with video features There is a Q&A about the D800 and D4 on NIkon's Facebook France page: https://www.facebook.com/NikonFrance...90322544333196 Hit the translation button to get the juice. Ps you have to be Facebook member to see this

February 26th, 2012, 07:56 AM	#82
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Re: Nikon D800 with video features A few tidbits on that FB thing, but I will look forward to some real world cinematographers putting both the D800 and D4 through their paces. :-D __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

February 27th, 2012, 06:50 PM	#83
Jerry Manco New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada Posts: 14	Re: Nikon D800 with video features Since my last posting in which I was asking if there are any differences in the quality of the video between the D800 and the D4, I have since changed my mind. I cancelled my D800 order and went to the D4.As yet there is still no definite distinction of video quality between these 2 camera's, I know I would have an inferior stills camera in the D800 to the D4. In the tech specs that Nikon issued on how to shoot stills with the D800 did it for me. It was all about motion blur(should use tripod) and not recommended to stop down past f8, all due to the mega pixel count. Not what I wanted to hear, not the way I shoot stills. Thanks for the previous postings, alway's listening in to your comments. http://imaging.jlmstudio.com/ Last edited by Jerry Manco; February 27th, 2012 at 06:51 PM. Reason: forgot something

February 27th, 2012, 07:03 PM	#84
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Re: Nikon D800 with video features Excellent point Jerry. I didn't pick up on it. It makes sense that if a sensor has as many more photosites as does the D800, that tiny movements or vibration (caused by any number of things, from shaky hands to wind) will present huge challenges in deriving a sharp image. At this point it's conjecture, but I think you made a good decision. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

February 28th, 2012, 07:26 AM	#86
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Re: Nikon D800 with video features <<<Viewed at the same size as images from the D4's 16mpx, there will be no apparent lack of sharpness or detail in a D800 image shot the with the same level of vibration or diffraction as the D4 - even if, at the pixel level, some of that detail has been smeared.>>> Can you more thoroughly explain why so, because on the surface it might logically appear that more smeared pixels - millions of them - would produce huge issues in processing a sharp video image. That said, I'll leave this to the sensor engineers. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

February 28th, 2012, 08:30 AM	#87
Jerry Manco New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada Posts: 14	Re: Nikon D800 with video features It's good to hear this(Mark Kenfield's reply) because I'm no tech guy. It's too bad I don't have a camera in my hands to do my own tests.I haven't seen any stills samples to date shot with the D800 or D800e that have blown me away. I still think the D4 is a more solid camera for stills shooting, and probably a little better in video as well, more features anyway, could be wrong.My problem is that I have some large shooting assignments starting this spring , half of it is video, and I would like to be shooting it with a new camera(1080p,8 bit 4:2:2). And then again, will these camera's be delivered on time.

February 28th, 2012, 12:15 PM	#89
Jerry Manco New Boot Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada Posts: 14	Re: Nikon D800 with video features Hey Mark, forget about the stills for a moment. Between these 2 camera's(D4,D800), same size chip, same features, one 16 megapixels and the other 36. Does one have an advantage of better video quality over another. Did I say that right.

February 28th, 2012, 06:02 PM	#90
Mark Kenfield Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 470	Re: Nikon D800 with video features Without knowing how the HD image is extracted from the sensors, it's impossible to say at the moment. We'll just have to wait and see some raw footage to see how they compare.