new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250

Allan Black · April 24th, 2011, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass

What I like about P2 and all the panasonic camera's is that they produce superb images and they look much more film like than the sony camera's which to me now have a very red colour cast and are more video like, that includes the high end sony cameras too and the panasonic codecs look nicer too and stand up to re-compression far better than the long gop ones.

I agree, and that desirable rich film look goes back to the tape based Pana GS400 which first appeared in July 2004. IMO it *beats* the Canon look too, regardless of the Custom Preset used.

I've still got 2 fully working GS400s squirreled away .. to play their tapes from the archives.

Cheers.

Gary Nattrass · April 25th, 2011, 03:35 AM

Hi Dom the lowest HD shooting on the HPX371 is AVC Intra 50 at 720p you can also shoot AVC Intra 50 at 1080i 25np which gives you 1440x1080 pixel images. 720p will also allow you to over and undercrank the camera too.

I tend to shoot AVC Intra 1080i 25np most of the time unless I need to do varicam or need a lot of storage space when I drop it down to AVC 50.

I have four 32gb cards but find that two are enough for most projects and my low cost way of offloading to hard drive is by using a powerbook G4 mac which has a PCMIA card slot, I can then leave a card copying whilst still shooting but most of the time I clone the cards and verify them direct from the camera to a USB hard drive or go direct into my edit system.

You could also use a PC with a PCMIA card slot to copy the cards as they just appear a hard drives on your desktop and can be copied easily or get the new card reader that is less than £500 if you already have a laptop.

Dom Stevenson · April 27th, 2011, 05:12 AM

Thanks for the info Gary.

Looking forwards to Dan Brockett getting hold of this cam to review later in the year. It seems destined to Join Canon's XF300 with the Beeb's seal of approval, and more importantly, will produce outstanding images. Also, as Dan pointed out elsewhere Panasonic have covered all price points by making 2 ACVHD versions. Can't complain with that.

Rob Katz · May 4th, 2011, 08:28 AM

i'm also very interested in this camera.

i had the original hvx200 and never loved the camera. i found focusing to be a chore and forced me to use an external monitor in the field which really slowed me down.

over the years, i have been more open to p2. with that in mind, i would again look at p2 if i went with the hpx250.

my only wish is for the camera to be in the stores by summer 2011 rather than autumn 2011.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions

Ken Hull · June 4th, 2011, 12:47 PM

The HPX250 is now listed on B&H at $6495, just $4 less than the Canon XF300. I'm hoping for a comparative review when the HPX250 is released. This looks like it will be a fun horse race!

Ken

Tim Polster · June 4th, 2011, 09:35 PM

It will be a horse race. Great codecs, same chip size and resolution. Too bad neither of them offer 8-pin rear zoom control. I just can't have a LANC style remote after using the broadcast style 8-pin controllers. This is a nice feature of the EX-1, the other horse in the race.

Sanjin Svajger · June 8th, 2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

the EX-1, the other horse in the race.

It's interesting though... EX1 was the first in this race and has been wining for quite some time now. Surely they must be having a replacement for the EX1 in the works by now? Panasonic came very late to the game - even later than Canon... Sony EX1 was/is a really nice cam. I wonder if this move from Panasonic was maybe a little premature - because if Sony releases something new in the next 1 year it will surely beat the crap out of it's competition...yes?

Tim Polster · June 8th, 2011, 08:55 PM

Yes, it is very interesting. I see the EX-1 just the same as the Canon 5D MKII. Why replace a product that is still working? Like the 5DMKII the EX-1 has plenty of resolution and chip size and the competition has not surpassed it in the marketplace. The only problem is the next logical step for the EX-1 is the 50mbps 4:2:2 codec which would throw Sony's line out of shape. This is the main area where Panasonic and Canon have an edge. But lets face it, going forward skimping on the codec will be very frowned upon as memory gets cheaper and cheaper. Not to mention if Scarlet comes out soon with RAW processing.

I like Panasonic cameras. It is a shame they have abandoned 1/2" chips. If the HPX-250 had 1/2" chips it would be a no brainer to so many.

Sanjin Svajger · June 9th, 2011, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

But lets face it, going forward skimping on the codec will be very frowned upon as memory gets cheaper and cheaper.

The codec/memory question isn't about saving money with memory any more. It's keeping the camera in a certain price range.

Now that memory prices continue to drop camera manufacturers should be able to use larger codes (but probably won't). 50Mb/s 4:2:2 mpeg2 is still highly compressed. It is better than 35 xdcam 4:2:0 but still give me 100 - 200 Mb/s 4:2:2 I-frame and I'll be happy.

Gary Nattrass · June 9th, 2011, 06:40 AM

I wonder if they will do hybrid camera next such as an HPX600/601 that is an ENG shoulder mount camera based on the AF101 4/3 chip but with the P2 system and AVC Intra 100 as the record end.

Jonathan Shaw · June 9th, 2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

Yes, it is very interesting. I see the EX-1 just the same as the Canon 5D MKII. Why replace a product that is still working? Like the 5DMKII the EX-1 has plenty of resolution and chip size and the competition has not surpassed it in the marketplace. The only problem is the next logical step for the EX-1 is the 50mbps 4:2:2 codec which would throw Sony's line out of shape. This is the main area where Panasonic and Canon have an edge. But lets face it, going forward skimping on the codec will be very frowned upon as memory gets cheaper and cheaper. Not to mention if Scarlet comes out soon with RAW processing.

I like Panasonic cameras. It is a shame they have abandoned 1/2" chips. If the HPX-250 had 1/2" chips it would be a no brainer to so many.

Couldn't have said it better myself, the real let down this year for me was from Sony and the F3, 35 4:2:0 is ridiculous. But this means I'm sure that the Ex1 upgrade will still be 35 4:2:0 not to step on the F3 toes. This looks like a great camera just like the Canon XF305 but 1/2 chips would swing so many people. I actually think that it would sway a fair amount of the Scarlet crew too.

Dom Stevenson · June 12th, 2011, 07:34 AM

"1/2 chips would swing so many people."

And put a large dent in Panasonic's more expensive line at the same time? Sony are faced with a similar problem with their EX upgrade.

Canon and JVC are the ones to watch IMO. They don't have higher end models to protect, though canon make a fortune supplying glass to the others.

It can't be long before Canon come up with a cam to go up against the af100 and F3, but in the meantime this new Panny range looks very nice.

Tim Polster · June 12th, 2011, 08:37 AM

I would have to praise Sony for its line right now and the focus on offering options to all levels of professionals. They have small and large format cameras from 1/3" all the way up to 35mm. I think this is a customer approach and in the end, does not take away sales that would not have been there to begin with.

The approach that says 1/2" chips will hurt a product line imho is out of touch by Panasonic. They have stated the HPX-300 was geared towards news stations. Well isn't that in place of orders that used to be 2/3" cameras? The fact is, people who think paying $20,000 for a body is too expensive for their budget are still going to think that way with or without a 1/2" chip option.

I have been waiting for JVC to step up and fill a void for a long time but they have released basically the same 1/3" camera for the last five years. I am not holding my breath!

Kevin McRoberts · June 12th, 2011, 10:48 AM

Why bother putting in 1/2" chips if you can get the same or better performance and quality from a 1/3" chip?

HVX user since forever, dabbler with DSLR's and 1/2" Sonys. Barring global financial villainy, I will be a 250 buyer this fall.

Tim Polster · June 12th, 2011, 11:49 AM

Kevin, you have a good point. I would say that the performance of the 1/3" chips is very good, but a similar 1/2" chip would be better. This includes less noise reduction due to the chips being so amped up (HPX-370) or better light gathering ability (XF-300). Also the diffraction point allows more of the aperature range to be used succesfully with larger imagers.

April 25th, 2011, 03:35 AM	#47
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 Hi Dom the lowest HD shooting on the HPX371 is AVC Intra 50 at 720p you can also shoot AVC Intra 50 at 1080i 25np which gives you 1440x1080 pixel images. 720p will also allow you to over and undercrank the camera too. I tend to shoot AVC Intra 1080i 25np most of the time unless I need to do varicam or need a lot of storage space when I drop it down to AVC 50. I have four 32gb cards but find that two are enough for most projects and my low cost way of offloading to hard drive is by using a powerbook G4 mac which has a PCMIA card slot, I can then leave a card copying whilst still shooting but most of the time I clone the cards and verify them direct from the camera to a USB hard drive or go direct into my edit system. You could also use a PC with a PCMIA card slot to copy the cards as they just appear a hard drives on your desktop and can be copied easily or get the new card reader that is less than £500 if you already have a laptop. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

April 27th, 2011, 05:12 AM	#48
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 Thanks for the info Gary. Looking forwards to Dan Brockett getting hold of this cam to review later in the year. It seems destined to Join Canon's XF300 with the Beeb's seal of approval, and more importantly, will produce outstanding images. Also, as Dan pointed out elsewhere Panasonic have covered all price points by making 2 ACVHD versions. Can't complain with that.

May 4th, 2011, 08:28 AM	#49
Rob Katz Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: new york city, new york Posts: 594	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 i'm also very interested in this camera. i had the original hvx200 and never loved the camera. i found focusing to be a chore and forced me to use an external monitor in the field which really slowed me down. over the years, i have been more open to p2. with that in mind, i would again look at p2 if i went with the hpx250. my only wish is for the camera to be in the stores by summer 2011 rather than autumn 2011. be well rob smalltalk productions

June 4th, 2011, 12:47 PM	#50
Ken Hull Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 240	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 The HPX250 is now listed on B&H at $6495, just $4 less than the Canon XF300. I'm hoping for a comparative review when the HPX250 is released. This looks like it will be a fun horse race! Ken

June 4th, 2011, 09:35 PM	#51
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 It will be a horse race. Great codecs, same chip size and resolution. Too bad neither of them offer 8-pin rear zoom control. I just can't have a LANC style remote after using the broadcast style 8-pin controllers. This is a nice feature of the EX-1, the other horse in the race.

June 8th, 2011, 08:55 PM	#53
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 Yes, it is very interesting. I see the EX-1 just the same as the Canon 5D MKII. Why replace a product that is still working? Like the 5DMKII the EX-1 has plenty of resolution and chip size and the competition has not surpassed it in the marketplace. The only problem is the next logical step for the EX-1 is the 50mbps 4:2:2 codec which would throw Sony's line out of shape. This is the main area where Panasonic and Canon have an edge. But lets face it, going forward skimping on the codec will be very frowned upon as memory gets cheaper and cheaper. Not to mention if Scarlet comes out soon with RAW processing. I like Panasonic cameras. It is a shame they have abandoned 1/2" chips. If the HPX-250 had 1/2" chips it would be a no brainer to so many.

June 9th, 2011, 06:40 AM	#55
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 I wonder if they will do hybrid camera next such as an HPX600/601 that is an ENG shoulder mount camera based on the AF101 4/3 chip but with the P2 system and AVC Intra 100 as the record end. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

June 12th, 2011, 07:34 AM	#57
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 "1/2 chips would swing so many people." And put a large dent in Panasonic's more expensive line at the same time? Sony are faced with a similar problem with their EX upgrade. Canon and JVC are the ones to watch IMO. They don't have higher end models to protect, though canon make a fortune supplying glass to the others. It can't be long before Canon come up with a cam to go up against the af100 and F3, but in the meantime this new Panny range looks very nice.

June 12th, 2011, 08:37 AM	#58
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 I would have to praise Sony for its line right now and the focus on offering options to all levels of professionals. They have small and large format cameras from 1/3" all the way up to 35mm. I think this is a customer approach and in the end, does not take away sales that would not have been there to begin with. The approach that says 1/2" chips will hurt a product line imho is out of touch by Panasonic. They have stated the HPX-300 was geared towards news stations. Well isn't that in place of orders that used to be 2/3" cameras? The fact is, people who think paying $20,000 for a body is too expensive for their budget are still going to think that way with or without a 1/2" chip option. I have been waiting for JVC to step up and fill a void for a long time but they have released basically the same 1/3" camera for the last five years. I am not holding my breath!

June 12th, 2011, 10:48 AM	#59
Kevin McRoberts Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 700	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 Why bother putting in 1/2" chips if you can get the same or better performance and quality from a 1/3" chip? HVX user since forever, dabbler with DSLR's and 1/2" Sonys. Barring global financial villainy, I will be a 250 buyer this fall. __________________ Freelance pudgy bearded lighting camera operator www.mcbob.tv

June 12th, 2011, 11:49 AM	#60
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250 Kevin, you have a good point. I would say that the performance of the 1/3" chips is very good, but a similar 1/2" chip would be better. This includes less noise reduction due to the chips being so amped up (HPX-370) or better light gathering ability (XF-300). Also the diffraction point allows more of the aperature range to be used succesfully with larger imagers.