new camera: Panasonic AG-HPX250

[Sanjin Svajger]

Originally Posted by Greg Laves

Yes. 4/3 and Super 35 chips. But they are only single chip camcorders. Do we really need 3 chips? Way back when, 3 chip cameras delivered very obvious color and image quality advantages over single chip cameras. Is that still the case now? I know my latest single chip DSLR delivers amazing color and IQ.

By handy-cam I meant with a big motorized lens in front of it. A HPX170 with a 4/3 chip... I know Sony has announced a motorized zoom for the F3 but let's wait and seen how that's going to look like. As of today I don't think it's possible for a manufacturer to make let's say an XF300 with a APS-C chip. I am eager to see what that zoom is going to look like.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Greg Laves

Yes. 4/3 and Super 35 chips. But they are only single chip camcorders. Do we really need 3 chips? Way back when, 3 chip cameras delivered very obvious color and image quality advantages over single chip cameras. Is that still the case now? I know my latest single chip DSLR delivers amazing color and IQ.

The Sony EX series and Canon XF 300 series offer higher resolution than any of the current single sensor cameras at the Sony F3 or below levels. Neither do they have the artifacts of the current DSLRs. It really depends where your priorities lie.

I suspect currently 2/3" is about the tipping point for the smaller single sensor camera otherwise other trade offs start kicking in.

[Robert M Wright]

Seems to me the new camera with the most sales potential is the AG-AC130. From what I gathered, reading the press release, it's essentially a 1/3" chip version of a souped-up HMC40 (a tiny beast, capable of producing astonishing images, especially for such a low cost camera), and likely to wind up being the most direct competition to Sony's HXR-NX5 (an exceptional AVCHD camera, in my opinion) at that price point. It's good to see that Panny didn't cripple the AC130 (or 160) with an abysmally low-res LCD and viewfinder, like the HMC40 (a major weakness of the 40). If the 1/3" chips in the AC130 produce images as cleanly as the 1/4" chips in the HMC40, allowing gain to be cranked way, way up, without making the images look radio-active, the 130 could be amazing in low-light, for a camera in it's class - potentially making it the next bread and butter king of low-budget wedding and event videography, and a great all-around workhorse. I can't really imagine the AG-AC160 selling all that well, unless it's discounted considerably from the list price - it doesn't really seem to offer anything significant, that the NX5 doesn't offer, but carries a $500 heavier (list) price tag. If one absolutely can't live without SDI and/or uncompressed audio, I could see potentially paying $500 more for the AC160 instead of an NX5 tho, if the 160 performs notably better when the lights are turned down (and it just wouldn't surprise me much if the 130/160 is as clean at 12dB as the NX5 at 6dB, after having shot with both the NX5 and HMC40).

[Greg Laves]

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

Yes but it won't deliver very high resolution like a 3 chip cam can...

Not sure about that. The new Sony Super 35 cameras deliver full 1920 x 1080 and will also do 1080 60p and amazing low light capabilities. Sounds pretty good to me. PMW-F3 and NEX-FS100. Exciting stuff.

[Tim Polster]

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

I can't really imagine the AG-AC160 selling all that well, unless it's discounted considerably from the list price - it doesn't really seem to offer anything significant, that the NX5 doesn't offer, but carries a $500 heavier (list) price tag. If one absolutely can't live without SDI and/or uncompressed audio, I could see potentially paying $500 more for the AC160 instead of an NX5 tho,

The AC160 will have full raster chips while the NX5 has pixel shifted chips. That might be the $500 difference for some.

[Robert M Wright]

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

The AC160 will have full raster chips while the NX5 has pixel shifted chips. That might be the $500 difference for some.

The AC130 will have the same imaging chips as the AC160. The only real differences between the 130 and 160 look to be SDI and uncompressed audio recording with the 160 - and of course, the price tag. Oh, I guess there's variable frame-rate with the 160 also. I know I sure won't be spending well over a grand for those added features, since they're almost irrelevant to me, although for some folks it makes a world of difference.

As far as resolution, it would be great if the AC130/160 actually records a sharper image than the NX5 (which sure isn't soft, by any stretch of the imagination), but the HMC40 has full raster chips as well, and actual recorded resolution/detail, in decent shooting conditions, is virtually identical with the HMC40 and NX5. I'm betting the AC130/160 will be no better or worse, in that regard.

[Les Wilson]

The HPX250, while having a low vertical profile, is quite fat. I did not get to see it from all angles yesterday. Today I did and it's a remarkable large camera for a handycam form factor. It's also long and straight (lacks the upward bend of the Ex3 and XL semi-shoulder designs). Man the thing is big.

[Sanjin Svajger]

Design-wise to me it looks ugly:) Compared to it's competitors XF300 and EX1 it looks like it came from the past maybe...:)

[Galen Rath]

I agree with you, Sanjin. In an industry so linked to style, you would think they would have done a better job of packaging.

[Tim Polster]

If the cameras are getitng that big the makers need to consider the mini-shoulder design of the JVC cameras.

[Dom Stevenson]

"In an industry so linked to style, you would think they would have done a better job of packaging."

Shallow as it sounds, i have to agree. This looks like a chubby consumer camcorder. The HVX looked like a very distinctive product, but this thing looks cheap, as if it was knocked up as an afterthought. If you look at - and feel - the mighty little XF100 from Canon, you get the impression you're holding a mini Pro camera in your hands, while the 300 is more impressive than the EX1. Meanwhile the HPX250 looks like a poor cousin of the HMC150.

With all the goodies inside, and what looks like an outstanding piece of glass, you'd think they'd make it look like something worth plunging into the pricey world of P2 media to acquire.

The only classy thing about this camera is the red band round the lens which has a Canon L-series association, regardless of whether it is or not. They've even taken the colours out of the P2 logo on the side, and, like the later manifestations of the HVX, the black has been replaced by a dreary grey.

Of course it's not due for release for sometime yet so we don't know what will eventually turn up, but at this point in time it doesn't compete with the competition on looks. What's inside it is another story of course, and vastly more important. But they could at least have made it look like a desirable camera.

[Dom Stevenson]

'If the cameras are getitng that big the makers need to consider the mini-shoulder design of the JVC cameras"

Then they would not be this kind of camera anymore, not to mention eating into their more expensive models. This size camcorder is great for doco stuff and can be carried as hand baggage on a plane and used for run and gun work etc. But i see your point.

The Xf300 - and JVC - is significantly bigger than the EX1 while having smaller sensors. As is this camera. In fact these new releases from the competition remind us of what a bargain deal the Sony EX1 still is. Especially since little used models go on Ebay at half price every day with loads of extras, and years after its release, no other manufacturer is offering a 1/2 " sensor at this price point.

[Glen Vandermolen]

I think it looks all right.
It looks functional, that should be enough.
Now, how it handholds is another matter.

The XF300 is huge because of that beautiful, fat, super-sharp lens. It's a work of art. It deserves a bigger camera behind it. Not even the mighty EX1 can match that lens.

[Robert M Wright]

I'll take an butt ugly camera that yields stunning images, over a gorgeous paper weight, any day of the week.

[Les Wilson]

All of these cameras are large in diameter