The Sony F65 New Digital Cinema Cam

[Paulo Teixeira]

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Looks like it's meeting with some approval:

Sony Steps Up Manufacturing After Pre-Orders Land F65 4K Camera in U.S. Top 200 - The Hollywood Reporter

I'm definitely looking forward to it since I'm one of the people who has it on pre-order (I wish).

Realistically, it's interesting that Rule is getting it. This would give me a chance to rent it one day if I get the right project.

[Charles Papert]

I went to a product demo last week of the F65, and it looks very promising.

Paulo, nice to hear you mention Rule--haven't thought about them in a while. I used to work out of Boston. John actually sold me my first Steadicam in '89! Say hi to him for me next time you see him.

[Paulo Teixeira]

I actually never rented anything from their yet.

[Don Miller]

Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach

It sounds as if he's referring to improvements in light sensitivity and dynamic range, as well as possibly to the development of practical global shutters.

I believe that's referring to more accurate per pixel construction in the output matrix. That probably means cleanly taking at least 6 million measurements at 1080p, and 24 million at 4K.

[Charlton Chars]

The F65 is the only CMOS character of its type that has a rotary shutter. Rotary shutters allow the camera operator to control the amount of motion blur. Thanks !

[Brian Drysdale]

The Alexa Studio has a mirror shutter and has no rolling shutter artifacts according to Arri.

[Stuart Graham]

I'm doing some research into various cameras for feature film production at the moment, especially the Sony F65, RED EPIC and Arri Alexa.

Have any of you worked with an F65 using the rotating shutter? Does the rotating shutter really prevent rolling shutter issues entirely? Even with camera movement and/or fast subject motion?

Thanks for reading

Stuart

[Charles Papert]

The only situation I can think of where the Alexa wouldn't suffice in this area, except for really aggressive and atypical camera movement, would be with momentary flashes like from a strobe unit. On an every day use situation, my friends who have had experience with the F65 tell me that it is a "pig" to deal with size-wise and they all prefer the Alexa (my default camera of choice also). If mobility is a part of your feature plans, you'd likely be happiest with the Alexa.

[Daniel Epstein]

Not sure this is really applicable but having a mechanical shutter may end up having more problems with flicker and screens in shots not just strobes as mentioned before. Thank god CRT's are almost gone. Philips BTS used a mechanical shutter for there early CCD cameras and it was a bit of a pain at the time compared to other manufacturers issues. Sony should probably let you turn it off as needed

[Sander Vreuls]

Daniel.. they (Grass Valley) actually still use the mechanical shutters.. aside from the fact that they are not as sensitive I've not come across many problems.. (though that is in studio enviroments)

[Alister Chapman]

The F65's mechanical shutter does eliminate all rolling shutter issues, but of course you limited to a 180 degree or narrower shutter when using it. You can turn off the mechanical shutter if you need to. The F65 is bulky and power hungry, but the images are incredible. The 13-14 stops of dynamic range and 16 bit linear raw material is amazing to work with in post. Just remember though that despite the 3:1 compression because of the 8k sensor the raw files are huge. Can you wait for the F55 in February, that has a global shutter.

[Stuart Graham]

Thank you very much for the replies.

Charles, sounds like the Alexa might be the tool of choice, does the Alexa have algorithms to prevent rolling shutter artefacts? I didn't realise the F65 was so hefty! Do you know how a fully rigged EPIC compares in mobility to the Alexa?

Daniel, do you think that if you're using the rotating shutter on the F65 different frequency lighting might play havoc with the video if it's out of sync?

Sander, probably a silly question but why are cameras with mechanical shutters less sensitive to light?

Alister, the F55 looks very nice indeed. That's another one for the research list :) Does a global shutter eliminate rolling shutter problems entirely? Are there any other cameras you think I should consider on the digital cinema camera shortlist?

My enthusiasm for the F65 'pig' is waning!

[Charles Papert]

Stuart, I couldn't answer that. Does your production have specific aspects that are red flags for rolling shutter, why is it a concern to this degree?

The Alexa is tried and true and is currently the first-choice camera for television and feature digital acquisition. The F65 does have fantastic performance but I wouldn't look at it myself for anything but a super-high stakes/budget project. Not many people on this site are working in that arena, including myself.

[Joe Ogiba]

Originally Posted by David C. Williams

The sensor size is no where near a 65mm frame. It's S35mm, just tiny bit bigger than the 23.6mm x13.3mm, 27.1 diagonal F35, 9000 and F3 at 24.7 mm x 13.1mm, 28 mm diagonal.

F65 vs VG900 FOV with 35mm lens :
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8063/8...576ae6e7_b.jpg

My VG900 with 35mm F1.4 FF Sony A mount lens:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8343/8...c4f1073a_b.jpg

[Stuart Graham]

Thanks for getting back to me Charles. I'm trying to come up with solutions for a number of different shooting scenarios for future digital feature projects. One of which is for a Bourne Ultimatum or NYPD Blue style of filming - lots of action and camera handheld camera movement, Though it might not be something we'll do I need to figure out what cameras would be needed to tick that box. The F55 or F65 seem like the best candidates (with testing).