|
|||||||||
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
![]() |
#61 | ||
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
Quote:
I do know someone who will regularly fall asleep watching TV - but reading a book has exactly the same effect! I've also been reminded that in the US, 24fps material gets shown via TV with 3:2 pulldown - which is not the case in 50Hz countries, or, indeed in the cinema in the 60Hz world. Their point was that to those not accustomed to it (ie people coming from the 50Hz world) the 3:2 pulldown of 24fps does NOT look desirable - rather more that "something is wrong". To anyone who's grown up with it, it's obviously a different matter. The logic therefore follows that for framerate matters it's far more down to conditioning, not anything hard wired into human consciousness? Does this not mean there are two "24fps looks" in the 60Hz world - one via TV, one via film projection? As far as the specifics go, then regarding the Hobbit trailer itself, I've only seen it online but it did seem to be shot with quite a high key, high contrast look? I wonder if some people don't like that, and are bundling it all in together with the framerate issue for general impression? I just look forward to seeing for myself. For the future, I suspect it's for better 3D compatability that 48fps production will rapidly increase - whatever version gets then derived for 2D. Quote:
We now tend to think of them as being undercranked owing to subsequent showing on fixed speed 24fps projectors - it's not how they were seen at the time. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#62 |
Starway Pictures
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Studio City
Posts: 581
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
IMHO, 2D narrative and animation looks and feels best at 24 (plus all the technical reasons why: easiest path to PAL, 3:2 pulldown). However, 3D narrative and animation looks and feels better at higher frame rates.
I currently turn off "motion flow" on panasonic plasma when I watch 2D material. I turn it on when I watch 3D. The 3D "feels" so much better at higher frame rates to me. Again. Just my opinion. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#63 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 53
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
i don't know all the technicalities, but after seeing all of the press on "48gate" i decided to take a look at the trailer. I know the trailer is in 24P (or i've read this), but it definitely looks very "videoy" and too bright. Definitely does not look "filmy" at all (whatever that may mean). Besides the video look, did anyone notice the mattes? They are horrible. I can see all of the edges whenever they are greenscreening and adding a fake or digital matte (they even appear jagged or jaggy at the edges, although maybe this is due to compression?). It looks horrible. You can see the lines in the mattes it looks very fake. It completely looks like oldschool greenscreen where you can tell the actors are obviously not there. I don't know if this has to do with the 48fps or the sheer quality of the "film" but it looks horrible and completely breaks the 4th wall and takes me out of the film. If they cannot make the mattes more realistic and blend them with live action I can say for myself I have absolutely no desire to see this movie. Everything looks fake... really fake and not sci-fi fake. It is hard enough to suspend reality with all of the digital effects and characters, but with the bad matte jobs, it is completely unwatchable to me.
Also on a side note is it me or do the title screens look like 3D circa 1984? Very old school 3D. On an old school Indiana Jones cheesy 3D map? Almost like the crappy Motion templates. I am not saying I could produce anything like this, but for a budget in the hundreds of millions I feel it looks very amateur, very crisp, very high quality, great actors (the real ones) but very amateur. If they can't up the believability of the digital artifacts, they've lost my ticket sale. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#64 |
Space Hipster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,596
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
I watched the trailer. Looked fine to me. Makes me want to see this movie, and I'm not a big Hobbit fan.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#65 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
Quote:
Tend to agree with Matt, ignore the video aspects, still frames just look "wrong" - unbelievable - nothing to do with framerate. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#66 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 53
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
Agreed David. I watched the trailer again and completely agree with you. Very bright. I can't tell you exactly for certain why it does not look like film, but I will say that I feel that the art direction is completely off-whack when you think about the context of this film. I don't know much about these films (sorry not a fan of fantasy especially digital fantasy) but I am guessing and it feels like it takes place in an old mystic land, yet the image is bright and crisp with super-sharp edges? Shouldn't it be more mute, dingy and organic? I just think as far as art direction they have it all wrong and at this point who really cares about the 24 / 48 question. If you want to transport someone to a faraway land the feeling of the visuals should evoke this. Bright, cheerful and crisp makes it too current. Perfect for Love Story 2, but completely the wrong "texture" for a fantasy film taking place in a faraway mystical land. Soooo not impressed. It is the perfect look for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, where the sets are kinda supposed to look fake, cartoony, childish, but is not fitting for this film. Too bright, too crisp, too detailed. Sets, makeup and costumes look very, very fake.
Also I've attached some low-res screenshots of the trailer on YouTube. Is it me or does this look like the worst greenscreen job you have ever seen. He clearly does not look like he is even there, not even close. How am I supposed to suspend my disbelief what the film looks as 2 different elements. There are lines all around his body disconnecting him form the background. And a super fake looking hair-light causing the outer perimeter of his hat to glow that much? What is the light source? A dark cloudy sky? Did they not see this in post? Very cheesy. In fact All of the greenscreen shots look very bad to me. Might be because of YT quality not sure. Again sorry for nit-picking but the overall look of this film is very amateur. May be a great as as a made for TV movie, but with the technologies he has in his arsenal and the astronomical budgets, it feels as though these films are beginning to digress instead of progress. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#67 |
Trustee
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,992
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
Shame we can't see the actor's face in those shots Matt but I suppose these new fangled camera's don't need any light so you don't need a DOP! ;0)
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/ |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#68 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,220
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
I agree with Glen, looked fine to me. If the critics have the same comments as some of you guys it will be a great success !!! Remember on a PC it will not be 24p or 48P and may well have been made a little brighter for the internet anyway. If the trailer is intended to be watched on a smart phone or tablet it needs to be brighter than it may be in the cinema and the details you see zooming into a still frame are not of importance.
Ron Evans |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#69 |
Starway Pictures
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Studio City
Posts: 581
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
** delete **
Last edited by Robert Sanders; May 4th, 2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Some people have thin skins. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#70 |
Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
Robert, if you don't agree with other people's opinions, it's really better to make your point without posts filled with insults and dripping with sarcasm.
In this particular case, frame rates directly and exactly create the issue that so many very experienced pros on this forum and in the film world are discussing. If you don't have the experience to understand why this is the case, there are plenty of well written explanations about the process - none of which will demean or insult you while reading them, I assure you. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#71 |
Starway Pictures
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Studio City
Posts: 581
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
** DELETE **
Never mind. If having a contrarian opinion is insulting and demeaning to you and you somehow took it personally, I apologize. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#72 | ||
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
It's not what people on this forum feel that's relevant - more so is that there is unease by many significant figures within the industry, which can't be simply dismissed. The debate about the trailer started at a CinemaCon screening in Las Vegas - 'Hobbit' preview divides CinemaCon auds - Entertainment News, Film News, Media - Variety
"Variety" reports : Quote:
Quote:
I'm assuming that at CinemaCon, the screenings that caused the negative comments were done on equipment that's about as good as it gets? So can't be put down to the for web versions that the rest of us are seeing? |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#73 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 240
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
Quote:
I've seen the sky throw an edge on someone that looked like they were cut out before. This seems relatively mild and unlikely to do a lot of harm to the viewing experience. The Hobbit is a much more story-book affair than The Lord of the Rings. I suspect that explains certain things about its look (although I do think the apparent clean-ness and the digital presentation might be a bit much all at once) |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#74 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London UK
Posts: 31
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
I agree with Robert's sentiment. Peter Jackson clearly states he has not graded the footage to a finished state. He didn't finish the post production and grading of the last movie until 24 hours before it was due to be delivered. A hashed together trailer produced whilst they are still filming shouldn't be judged as a finished product, I see it as the Hobbit v0.5 beta...
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#75 | ||
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
|
Re: The Hobbit shooting in 48p on RED cameras
Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure the Hobbit footage will look fine come final release - even if it doesn't now. It's unfortunate that showing ungraded material should have unjustly given the 48fps issue bad publicity. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
| ||||||
|
|