JVC HD DVD Player announced

[Luis Caffesse]

JVC has a new HD DVD player coming out that will play HDV Mpg2 files.
Great news for those of you with HDV Cameras:

Here's an excerpt of the press release:

"the SRDVD-100U, utilizes a standard red laser DVD player combined with a decoding engine compatible with several popular HD file formats. MPEG-2 files created with HDV camcorders can be saved onto a common recordable DVD disk using any commercial DVD recorder, and then played back on the SRDVD-100U.”

Check out the full store at
The WEVA website

[Jeffrey Brown]

thats a lice littel unit, especially considering that its a prosumer unit under at ~$400 as an entry point. i noticed that the article didnt cover any audio specifications, only that it will accpet and mpg2 straight from the camera... which is going to be stereo tracked.

for those of use that are into 5.1 audio, would this still work?

[Adam Christopher]

What does it mean by "any commercial DVD recorder"? Is it talking about a replicator?

[Jeffrey Butler]

I'd love to revive this thread, as I'm considering purchasing one. My primary purpose is to have an immediate and optical backup of the raw captures. And it sounds like this is what it does.

Originally Posted by B&H

HDV to DVD

The SRDVD-100U can play back HDV 720p recordings on burned DVD disks. You can store 30 minutes of HDV programming on a single layer 4.7 GB disk and up to 60 minutes in dual layer disks. When the disk is inserted into the machine a list of files will appear on the HD display screen. Just select a file and watch HD video and audio.

So why wouldn't anyone with and HDV cam (HD100/110/200u/250) want one? You burn your files onto a DVD and not only can you review them, but you get a full data archive of your stuff?

Isn't that brilliant? What am I missing, and why don't you have one!?

Jeff

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You're not missing a thing...

There are other players on the market that will play native MPEG2 M2T HDV streams now. I believe Sony's BDP-S1 BluRay player does as does the new LG/Philips player.

However, there is one caveat as with most all HDV devices. HDV manufacturers can't make up their minds over who's stuff to support and which formats. The JVC HD-DVD player only plays back 720p HDV content created with JVC HDV camcorders ranging from the HD1 & HD10 up through their HD1x0 and broadcast HDV offerings. It will not play back 1080i HDV recorded on Sony or Canon HDV equipment. Same thing with cameras... I was working with someone a few weeks ago on a short film project and his firewire on his HD10 went out. We could play back his tapes in other HD camcorders like the Sony HC3, but the Sony would not send the non-Sony HDV stream out over firewire, nor would it send it out via HDMI. Only component and the onboard LCD screen.

Backing up HDV content to DVD is somewhat pointless. Good DV tapes are so cheap these days and are more rugged than a DVD disc. Why not just leave your HDV footage right on the tape it was captured on?

It's kinda nice that you can put your HDV on a standard DVD-R disc and play it in these new HD players. However, it makes more sense to import HDV into your NLE using Cineform RAW or Apple's intermediate codec and then mastering your final as H.264 or VC-1, which can then be put back to conventional DVD media for playback on a greater variety of players.

[Jeffrey Butler]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

There are other players on the market that will play native MPEG2 M2T HDV streams now. I believe Sony's BDP-S1 BluRay player does as does the new LG/Philips player.

Now that makes sense. Of course there would be. I don't know why I thought this was the only unit. It certainly was the first unit I saw that could do that...

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

Backing up HDV content to DVD is somewhat pointless. Good DV tapes are so cheap these days and are more rugged than a DVD disc. Why not just leave your HDV footage right on the tape it was captured on?

Well the tape is a great back up. I will always leave it there. I haven't shot over a tape in 10 years. But you have to capture it again to use it. It's a bit harder to just review it, as well. I guess it's even better than just a tape - b/c now you have two backups on multiple formats - with one in a firesafe...and without much effort. 2 DVDs per tape!? You'd be crazy not to do "something like this."

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

However, it makes more sense to import HDV into your NLE using Cineform RAW or Apple's intermediate codec and then mastering your final as H.264 or VC-1, which can then be put back to conventional DVD media for playback on a greater variety of players.

I am going to have to quickly figure out workflow. I have a little HC-3 which I've been capturing and working in Apple's IC as you mention. I think that's 14 mb/sec. But now that you mention it - those won't play on this DVD, will they? So...how can I capture the tape in one format that I can use in Final Cut Pro and burn to a disc like we're talking about for backup...

My bubble is about to burst, isn't it?! *sniff...workflow...I bet FCP can't even do 720/60p...what am I getting in to...heh-heh-heh.

Jeff

[Jeff Kilgroe]

It's hard to do actual editing with HDV. It's not an editing codec with its long GOP form. If you're on Apple, then you'll want to use their IC. This is an editing codec that gets you as close to a lossless import of your HDV footage as you can get.

FCP does support 720p60 and beyond, no worries there. If you have an HC-3, you're actually using 1080i anyway. Also the HDV from the HC-3 won't play on the JVC player... Should play on the Sony BluRay player.

If you have your footage in FCP stored in Apple's IC, then you can output to any other supported codec on your system. You can put standard H.264 and VC-1 streams on a conventional DVD writable disc and it will play in HD-DVD and BluRay players. This isn't exactly a backup, but more of a format for final delivery. You won't want to use H.264 or VC-1 files as a source for bringing video back into your system as you'll suffer loss of quality.

If you're thinking of making secondary backups of your HDV master footage, then DVD is OK for that if you have the time and want to mess with capturing the M2T streams and writing them out. Or you could just dub another tape if you have another compatible HDV camera or deck.

[Jeffrey Butler]

Some tech support guy got me writing 60p...maybe I just meant that to be shorthand for 720 progressive, 60 fps. I dunno.

SO, either way, yes - the HC-3 is 1080i, and it's working quite well. But I don't get an option to change capture presets. If it's plugged in, Apple just pops up a ghetto capture dialog and then conveniently proceeds to capture everything, breaking each clip as the start/stop marks indicate.

Those files, I can put to a variety of sorts. What got me all excited was the possibility of capturing directly to my array, the same files that wound up on the HDDVD - though I think it just hit me that you can't do that - thus the AIC or other codec....oh man, the light bulbs that come on...

Okay, so HC-3 or HD200u - I'm still going to wind up w/ all my footage as AIC (Apple's Intermediate Codec)...so who cares about the DVD Player? These files won't play on the JVC or a Blu-Ray, will they?

So I think my bubble is burst - however - backing up the AIC's is no big deal - just toss on another hard drive...

For a moment, though, it seemed great. Now it's just an HD delivery platform. Well, maybe I can toss in another battery to my shopping cart. :=]

So I'm not really in HDV land. I'm in JVC land (m2t) while shooting - but the moment I capture, I'm (essentially) in any land I wanna be, but most likely Apple's Intermediate Codec, unless I get a Kona card and capture into another variant of HD....workflow getting more complicated....though with AIC, pretty much settled. Unless I complicate it with a Kona.

Thanks.

[Jeffrey Butler]

Since we were talking about m2t files and the DVD player, I wanted to post the following, since it seems to have bearing on the viability of the above mentioned DVD player. It is referring to the JVC (Focus) DR-HD100 disk recorder. The HDD, it seems, can record the files that will go right to this DVD.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...stpost&t=87295

It seems we can believe a tech email from Focus, or a post from JVC America

===HERE'S THE EMAIL===
The only current firestore that records "720/60p" is the "FS-100. But this unit is not compatible with JVC --DV or HD-- cameras. Other firestore models do not support this mode.

Phil
Technical Support
Focus Enhancements
763-398-1658
www.focusinfo.com/support/

Please attach this e-mail string to all future replies.
Sent: Thu 2/22/2007 4:24 PM
To: Support
Subject: JVC-GYHD200u and 720p60

I am interested in the DR-HD100 for the "new" GYHD200 from JVC - and I'm trying to determine if it can record 720p60; and if not, if you have anything current product that does.

===HERE'S THE POST===
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....2&postcount=17
Hi Jeffery,

The DRHD100 DOES record 720/60p, in the .m2t mode. I've done it several times.

But, support for 60p HDD files over firewire for NLE's is very limited so far. As in the past, the NLE companies will have to catch up. For now, you could play the files back through the camera, and come out the component HD connector, and go to a capture card like BlackMagic or AJA

Regards,
__________________
Carl Hicks
JVC Professional Products Company
===============

So - this could be one more reason to use the HDD, though full quality DVD backup and review is probably not the driving factor in purchasing one....

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Butler

So I'm not really in HDV land. I'm in JVC land (m2t) while shooting - but the moment I capture, I'm (essentially) in any land I wanna be, but most likely Apple's Intermediate Codec, unless I get a Kona card and capture into another variant of HD....workflow getting more complicated....though with AIC, pretty much settled. Unless I complicate it with a Kona.

You don't want a Kona or Decklink (or similar) card for this sort of camera... If you capture the component out from the camera, you're taking a compressed video feed, converting to analog, capturing that, converting back to digital and at some point you have to recompress. Not elegant or practical. If you capture via an HDMI connection, there is no digital to analog conversion, but you're not gaining anything. You're still getting the compressed HDV stream output through the HDMI just as you would see it played back on your TV. You can capture it uncompressed, but once again, no point. If you bright it in over firewire, you're not altering anything, the data comes in as an HDV stream the way it's stored on tape.

Every now and then when new camcorders are about to hit the market, a lot of people go nuts and get excited over "uncompressed" or "unprocessed" capture of a live feed out of the component, HDMI or SDI outputs. But that's a whole different can of worms...

As for the above post regarding the FS-100 and other things... I'm not up to date on the FS-100 or other Firestore products outside of how the FS-100 pertains to the HVX200 camcorder. That's my limited experience there, and while I don't own an FS-100 personally, I've been less than pleased with the two units I've borrowed in the past. I can't comment on their applicability to HDV or why they wouldn't be compatible with JVC's HD cameras. But the FS-100 does capture 720p60 and 1080i60 DVCPROHD @ 100Mbps, or 4X the data rate of DV tape mechanisms... Many HDV formats are actually less than the 25Mbps DV rate.

When the JVC tech is saying support for 60p over firewire is limited for a lot of NLEs, he's somewhat correct. Or at least as far as JVC products are concerned. ...JVC is really the only company pushing 720p as an HDV format and up until the HD200, all their HDV offerings were topped out at 720p30. Most consumer software and even some pro-sumer stuff didn't account for the HD200 so there are some compatibility issues out there. But the major NLEs are all fine. Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro handle it fine (since 5.1.1 I think). Premiere Pro does fine with 60p, but you really need to use something like Cineform's intermediate codec for HDV import for best results. Same with Vegas Video. And where most NLEs are limited is not with 60p in itself, but rather with HDV in general. There's a reason products like Cineform have caught on very well with the HDV crowd.

Now JVC's DRHD100 disc recorder can be accessed just like a firewire hard drive, so you can just drag your m2t files over to your computer or import them as files off an HD -- you won't be capturing a live stream from the DRHD100 to your NLE, but rather importing to your NLE directly or via conversion to an intermediate codec by some other software as you would with any other backed-up M2T files. Or I suppose you can drop these m2t files onto a DVD media and play it in an appropriate HD-DVD or BluRay player if you want, but that's going to be hit or miss between brands and formats.

[Jeffrey Butler]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

Now JVC's DRHD100 disc recorder can be accessed just like a firewire hard drive, so you can just drag your m2t files over to your computer or import them as files off an HD -- you won't be capturing a live stream from the DRHD100 to your NLE, but rather importing to your NLE directly or via conversion to an intermediate codec by some other software as you would with any other backed-up M2T files. Or I suppose you can drop these m2t files onto a DVD media and play it in an appropriate HD-DVD or BluRay player if you want, but that's going to be hit or miss between brands and formats.

Perhaps the only good reason to hit another color space is to color correct or mess with effects, but generally I agree. Then again, if you can accelerate your workflow w/ realtime playback of certain effects, then that would be another reason. The last "card" I used, though, was a Media100 - probably 10 years ago. I haven't looked back. Don't care for a card that will just have to be upgraded before my computer will...

Until I get a quad-core, Intel Mac Pro, acceleration w/ the new footage from the HD200 might just be worth the investment in a Kona card - but not at this point. I could get some real component outs for some "HD" (aspect only) monitoring on my JVC H1900SU - however, shooting P I suppose my 23" Cinema Display will be all I need, eh?

I think it's ok to get the DR-HD100-80. I'm assuming I can record 720p/60 to tape and .m2t to disk...

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

The JVC HD-DVD player only plays back 720p HDV content created with JVC HDV camcorders ranging from the HD1 & HD10 up through their HD1x0 and broadcast HDV offerings. It will not play back 1080i HDV recorded on Sony or Canon HDV equipment.

Sorry Jeff. You're dead wrong on your tech specs there. In fact, the sample disc included with the player is an all 1080PsF30 m2t @ 25Mbps.

I own one of these players and use it for dailies review and for client screenings in HD.

The JVC SR-DVD100 HiDef DVD player will play ANY m2t stream. 720P24,25,30,50,60 or 1080i50, 1080i60, PsF30, PsF24, PsF25. It doesn't matter what the source is, as long as it is m2t or mpeg2 PS.

This player also plays WMV HD (WMVs9) files (I've downloaded and played a bunch from the Microsoft WMV HD sample site) as well as DivX and XviD.

Of course DVD is supported and there is an awesome uprez circuit to 720P or 1080i via component or DVI out. (DVD uprez requires HDCP compliant display. HDCP not required for m2t files.)

The player also supports the usual audio formats and photo formats, and even works as a remote media player via the ethernet connector from any PC or Mac media server. It even interfaces with iTunes and will play your playlists over the network.

It is a very versatile piece of gear and much cheaper than the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray offerings at the moment. I probably would have bought a blue laser player by now if the SR-DVD100 didn't exist.

Here's the instruction manual with all the details. http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/DV...00u_manual.pdf
Ignore the max bitrate specs in the manual for m2t. It is actually 25Mbps, not 19.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Sorry Jeff. You're dead wrong on your tech specs there. In fact, the sample disc included with the player is an all 1080PsF30 m2t @ 25Mbps.

Tim,

Perhaps, I've been mis-informed regarding HDV/M2T playback on that specific player. And I've had more than one person tell me that their 1080i HDV M2Ts won't play on it, both of them own this unit. Or does something need to be done with the M2T files to alter the headers? A good friend of mine with an XLH1 bought this player and could not get 1080i M2Ts from his H1 to play on it. AFAIK, he returned the player... Also, I wasn't implying that the player couldn't play 1080 content, just 1080i HDV from a non-JVC source. But that may not be the case. Anyway, with HD-DVD players now under $300 that seems to be the better choice anyway, IMO.

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe

Perhaps, I've been mis-informed regarding HDV/M2T playback on that specific player. And I've had more than one person tell me that their 1080i HDV M2Ts won't play on it, both of them own this unit. Or does something need to be done with the M2T files to alter the headers? A good friend of mine with an XLH1 bought this player and could not get 1080i M2Ts from his H1 to play on it.

That's weird because I've downloaded Kaku Ito's 24F clips and they play just fine in the SR-DVD100. If there was going to be a problem with any format, it would be Canon's 24F. Those files don't seem to have a pulldown in a 60i stream, according to Mpegstreamclip they are actually 23.98fps.
I've never had this player not play any m2t from any camera that I've ever downloaded. Of course, I ran the built in firmware updater as soon as I set it up, so maybe there was an update for the Canon format at some point?

[Dennis Wood]

I was researching an HD transmission system (over CAT5) on our network and realized that this unit supports IP!

Are any of you using that feature? Streaming video directly from a workstation to this unit sounds perfect for our needs.