Sony 24 P

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

It is a rather impressive little camera, true enhanced resolution 16:9, a single CCD with an RGB color filter (near 3 CCD performance), higher res for photos and other nice features and it seems to have progressive scan, but at 30 fps.

I would much rather see Sony offer me a firmware update to get proscan on the PDX10. I guess I might even be willing to pay for it.

[Steve McDonald]

If you read the details, you see that this camera doen't have any progressive scanning modes, either 24p or 30p. It just loses 20% of the interlaced frames and then shifts the remainder into a pulldown for compatibility to 30i recording and output. It may have the so-called film-look of 24-frame scanning, but there would be none of the blur-reducing, progressive-scan advantages for still-frame capture. As others said, in fast action, you might have noticeable disruption in the continuity, if the period of the lost frame comes at the wrong instant.

To me this comes under the heading of creative degradation. I assume that there's a standard mode that switches off this thing.

Steve McDonald

[Dave Croft]

Living in Pal land, I hope there is a Pal model of this cam soon. It would have 25p which would eliminate the need for the messy 24p pulldown from 30p, and would have increased resolution too ;)

Although I hope they put these kind of features in an upgrade of the VX2100/PD170.

Dave.

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> If you read the details, you see that this camera
> doen't have any progressive scanning modes

Steve, this is from the press relesease:

"This effect automatically engages the unit's progressive and 16:9 wide modes".

I believe what they say about it. Sony consumer doesn't usually lie about it's products. Very different from what Sony broadcast does though. For some strange reason the pro division get's away with saying anything, like talking about the PDX10's "reduced vertical smear" and 15fps frame mode, ohh and there's the amazing "superb DVCAM image quality" or something like that jajajaj.

[Steve McDonald]

Ignacio, I'll say again, there's no progressive scanning modes on this camcorder. They call it a "progressive effect". This mode reduces the number of frames used, but they're scanned as interlaced and of course, that's how they are recorded and sent to the outputs.

Steve McDonald

[Jesse Bekas]

The "progressive scan" mode of this camcorder is going to be comparable to the "Frame Mode" of the Panasonics. It's not true 30p, but creates a similar effect. The same with the 24p mode. It is an effect that mimcs 24p. Sony is applying the term "progressive" very loosely, to describe the related effect of this new recroding mode...false advertising using buzz words to generate premature interest.

[Kurth Bousman]

Is anyone here speaking with knowledgeable authority or is this just "crystal ball stuff " ? How will we know without footage or a sony engineer spilling the beans ?

[Steve McDonald]

The "Frame Mode" of the Panasonic cameras has the effect of partially reducing the interframe blurring of moving subjects. This aids in the capture of clear still pictures from video footage.

There's nothing about the description of the Sony "Progressive-scan Effect" that would indicate that the typical interframe blurring of interlaced-scanned video would be reduced. The capture of still frames from this system would not be benefitted, in any way I can detect, from the information provided.

All the frames in this new Sony system would be scanned as interlaced, one of every five frames discarded and a pull-down used, that mixed the fields of the remaining frames, repeating some of them, in a way that filled in the missing gaps. The signal would be recorded and output as 29.97 interlaced frames per second in NTSC.

Steve McDonald

[Kurth Bousman]

Steve - what is your source of info? As Sony says , it is 30p 16x9. Until someone puts up another , more informed link that says different , I want to believe the press release.

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Steve:

As the Panasonic 24p, the CCD can capture progressive frames (in this case 30p) and then write them as interlaced for playback compatability. Then in capture and editing, the full progressive frame can be reconstructed without resolution loss. I see no reason that this is not exactly what Sony is describing.

[Steve McDonald]

It appears that some "progressive-thinkers" have had their buttons pushed by seeing that magic word, in regards to the upcoming Sony DCR-PC350. Note that in the article that was linked on the first message of this thread, the key phrase is "progressive-scan effect". There's nothing that leads me to believe that the Cinematic Mode of this camcorder is anything but an altered interlaced scan.

Read the article very carefully and filter the ambiguities added by its writer in regards to this mode. Don't confuse the information about the Panasonic model #100, which does a true progressive scan, with the function of the PC350. Sony's own press release about the PC350 is very limited in its description of the Cinematic Mode. The writers of several online articles got more details from some Sony representatives, than was directly released on their website. There's little other information about it available now.
An Internet search produced several more articles about the PC350, but they were even more limited in their descriptions.
A couple of them never once used the word, "progressive".

By this model's release date in the Fall, any misunderstanding about it should be settled. You can believe what you'd like in the meantime. I mentioned nothing about the 16:9 mode. Does anyone think that if Sony produced a medium-priced NTSC camcorder with true 24p or 29.97p progressive-scan, that this feature wouldn't be the leading theme of any promotional news they released about it?

Steve McDonald

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Steve:

This is the paragraph from the Sony Release

"New Features Bring Hollywood to Home Video


The DCR-PC350 camcorder's new cinematic effect mode enables users to experience the thrill of recording and playing back film-like scenes on video. This effect automatically engages the unit's progressive and 16:9 wide modes, creating video with Hollywood-like color reproduction while recording at 30 frames per second."

Pretty clear to me that's 30 progressive frames per second.

[Ken Tanaka]

Wow. Two pages of posts on a camera that won't even be available for two more months.

Pace yourselves. There's no point getting too hot hypothesizing about a device none of us have even touched yet. Plenty of time for that this fall when we'll need some heat (at least up here in Chicago).

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Ken:

You should know 24p progressive scan always gets us natives restless :)

[Ken Tanaka]

How well I know, as a DVX owner myself.

I must admit that this little camera has me a bit mystified, too. I'm at a loss to see its market. It doesn't really fit as a 'daddy-cam' (perhaps the 2nd or 3rd largest market for video cams). Daddies would never settle for only 24 frames per second of their little snookems when they can get 30 for less money! But it's also not really a Bohemian filmmakers' camera (ala DVX-style), either.

I guess what mystifies me most is why Sony has not chosen to produce a direct competitor to the DVX.

It will be interesting to see how this camera fares, both technically and commercially. Sony has made some unusual decisions during the past two years, many of which have left powder burns on their faces and shareholders ready to revolt.