New Samsung 1080p Camcorder -Up to 300fps

Evan Donn · June 16th, 2008, 01:06 PM

Clips play fine for me but have a few sections where the image looks corrupt. I do have the avc1Decoder codec installed - don't have the link here but I found it in the Xacti forum - and quicktime appears to be using it for playback.

Specifically looking at HDV_0004.MP4 I assume you don't have image stabilization enabled - if you do it appears quite useless, which could be a problem with a camera this small. However with the amount of shaking going on at full tele I was surprised to see little or no rolling shutter effect (the 'rubbery' look, not tilting verticals on pans) - it's certainly the least I've ever seen on a CMOS-based camera.

Steve Nunez · June 16th, 2008, 02:31 PM

Actually from what i've seen- the video quality looks "allot" like the Xacti series.....nothing too special there- just my casual observances!

Bob Diaz · June 16th, 2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Gillespie

Bob, thats what I was thinking. I have had quicktime video files that have opened fine before but contain a glitch which freezes playback. The card you used was very low capacity? I think this camera likes SDHC cards. Shame the camera doesn't warn you. The fact is that these files are readable on a Mac. My recommendation would be to convert them to something more useable for editing like the apple intermediate codec.

http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:...57e45559fcb9b3

I'm beginning to wonder if I screwed up by using a tiny 512MB off brand SD card. A buffer overflow could cause a dropped frame that could screw up my MAC playback. Sadly, it looks like every program in my Mac uses the same drive to read the file, so the same lock-up occurs with every program. Thus, there's no way to convert the file to AIC.

Because I can play, stop, and exit Quicktime before the 3/4 point in the files, this suggests a glitch is in the files. Now I'm tempted to buy a class 4 SDHC card ($25 USA, equal to about 16 Euro) and re-do the test...

Bob Diaz

Evan Donn · June 17th, 2008, 12:20 PM

first review (that I've seen at least) up here:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/17...corder-review/

Not incredibly detailed but overall positive review with some sample clips

Richard Gillespie · June 18th, 2008, 01:20 PM

Well it went quiet here for while we all digested the footage I guess. For me the Samsung pictures are too compressed. Not that there is anything wrong with compression but they really show it on anything moving. Back to HDV for me, probably an HV30.

Steve Nunez · June 18th, 2008, 01:44 PM

Yeah I agree- miniDV compression was the best of the consumer formats with HDV second and now with these implementations of AVCHD and various .264 codecs- quality is worsening each time out~ what a terrible direction for home videographers!

Bob Diaz · June 18th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

first review (that I've seen at least) up here:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/17...corder-review/

Not incredibly detailed but overall positive review with some sample clips

Well, I downloaded all the video clips from the review and SURPRISE, they all play without any problems. Now I'm beginning to think that maybe the files I recorded had dropped frame(s) or some sort of glitch in them.

I may need to go back to Circuit City and try it again with a better memory card...

Bob Diaz

Dave Blackhurst · June 18th, 2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

Yeah I agree- miniDV compression was the best of the consumer formats with HDV second and now with these implementations of AVCHD and various .264 codecs- quality is worsening each time out~ what a terrible direction for home videographers!

Maybe in the second tier brands... the Sony SR11 is a pretty clean implementation of AVCHD, better than HDV at a similar price point, if a little bit of effort to figure out the workflow.

Christopher Warwick · October 28th, 2009, 06:00 PM

Does anyone know how this Samsung VP-HMX20C compares to the Casio Exilim Pro EX-F1?

I can pick up the Samsung for about £175 now, but the Casio will cost me £450. I would only be using it for slo-motion (high FPS) video work.

Incidentally, I'm not worried about the 10-second restriction that the Samsung has, I will get what I need within that time. The most important factor is quality of the footage.

Bob Diaz · October 28th, 2009, 11:23 PM

I have the Samsung VP-HMX20C. The video at 300 FPS isn't too bad, but there are times I notice some artifacts in the video. Here are 2 videos I posted on YouTube that show the results:

YouTube - Slow Motion Test

YouTube - Egg shot with a 22 at 300 FPS

A copy of one of the videos is on Vimeo:

Bob Diaz

Christopher Warwick · October 29th, 2009, 04:19 AM

Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting those, I went and had a look.

It doesn't look HD.. Are you able to edit in full 1080? Would you get the 60fps at 1080 and is it editable with programs like Adobe Premiere CS4?

One factor that is putting me off the Casio is the inability to edit the footage in Premiere CS4. I downloaded a clip from their site, http://www.exilim.com/intl/ex_f1/ima...v/CIMG0218.ZIP which is 28MB. All I get in Premiere is a green screen.

This is a serious put-off for the Casio. I must be able to edit it along with other h.264 footage. It appears to use its own codec hybrid. Not good at all. Why can't these camera manufacturers stick to the industry standard? Found this thread useful: Casio EX-F1 - FullHD (h.264) - VideoHelp.com

Thanks again Bob.

Bob Diaz · November 2nd, 2009, 11:19 AM

All the 300 FPS Slow motion footage is 448 x336. I'm uploading some 1080/30p footage so you can see the HD output of the camera.

Now many HD video cameras shoot 1080/60i and 108030p, but you are not going to see a camera shoot 1080/60p. TVs may offer that, but the video cameras don't offer that.

I use FCE (Final Cut Express), so I like to down convert the 1080/30p footage into 720/30p and edit in that resolution. FCE will edit the 1080/30p footage as 1080/60i, but I just like the 720/30p mode more.

I have never used Premiere CS4.

The link for the video is:

The tags I used for the video are: Idaho, winter, ice, snow, Samsung, HMC20c, camera, 1080p, test, video, 30p, farm, Bob, Diaz, BobDiaz

If you want to go direct to Vimeo and search for it. If you have an account with Vimeo and log into it, you can download the source file.

Bob Diaz

Rich Ryan · November 2nd, 2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Diaz

Now many HD video cameras shoot 1080/60i and 108030p, but you are not going to see a camera shoot 1080/60p. TVs may offer that, but the video cameras don't offer that.

The Sanyo VPC-FH1 and VPC-HD2000 both shoot 1080/60p video.

Christopher Warwick · November 3rd, 2009, 04:11 PM

I don't know of any other cameras in the sub-$1000 category other than the five stated below that are capable of slow motion functionality.

Made a little cribsheet to compare them by, might be useful to others.

In the end after much researching I bought the Casio EX-F1. Got a good deal at £435 including shipping.

June 16th, 2008, 01:06 PM	#46
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	Clips play fine for me but have a few sections where the image looks corrupt. I do have the avc1Decoder codec installed - don't have the link here but I found it in the Xacti forum - and quicktime appears to be using it for playback. Specifically looking at HDV_0004.MP4 I assume you don't have image stabilization enabled - if you do it appears quite useless, which could be a problem with a camera this small. However with the amount of shaking going on at full tele I was surprised to see little or no rolling shutter effect (the 'rubbery' look, not tilting verticals on pans) - it's certainly the least I've ever seen on a CMOS-based camera. __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

June 16th, 2008, 02:31 PM	#47
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Actually from what i've seen- the video quality looks "allot" like the Xacti series.....nothing too special there- just my casual observances! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

June 17th, 2008, 12:20 PM	#49
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	first review (that I've seen at least) up here: http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/17...corder-review/ Not incredibly detailed but overall positive review with some sample clips __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

June 18th, 2008, 01:44 PM	#51
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Yeah I agree- miniDV compression was the best of the consumer formats with HDV second and now with these implementations of AVCHD and various .264 codecs- quality is worsening each time out~ what a terrible direction for home videographers! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

October 28th, 2009, 06:00 PM	#54
Christopher Warwick Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roma, Italy Posts: 83	Does anyone know how this Samsung VP-HMX20C compares to the Casio Exilim Pro EX-F1? I can pick up the Samsung for about £175 now, but the Casio will cost me £450. I would only be using it for slo-motion (high FPS) video work. Incidentally, I'm not worried about the 10-second restriction that the Samsung has, I will get what I need within that time. The most important factor is quality of the footage. __________________ Canon XH A1, Letus Elite, WD-H72, Zeiss 35/2, Nikons 24/2.8, 50/1.2, 55/2.8, 85/1.4, Miller DS200, SD 302 FM, 2 X R0DE NTG-3, Senn ew100 G2, SKP 500 G2, Lowel Rifa kit, CS4.

June 18th, 2008, 01:20 PM	#50
Richard Gillespie New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: London Posts: 24	Well it went quiet here for while we all digested the footage I guess. For me the Samsung pictures are too compressed. Not that there is anything wrong with compression but they really show it on anything moving. Back to HDV for me, probably an HV30.

October 28th, 2009, 11:23 PM	#55
Bob Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: LA, California Posts: 170	I have the Samsung VP-HMX20C. The video at 300 FPS isn't too bad, but there are times I notice some artifacts in the video. Here are 2 videos I posted on YouTube that show the results: YouTube - Slow Motion Test YouTube - Egg shot with a 22 at 300 FPS A copy of one of the videos is on Vimeo: Vimeo Bob Diaz

October 29th, 2009, 04:19 AM	#56
Christopher Warwick Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roma, Italy Posts: 83	Hi Bob, Thanks for posting those, I went and had a look. It doesn't look HD.. Are you able to edit in full 1080? Would you get the 60fps at 1080 and is it editable with programs like Adobe Premiere CS4? One factor that is putting me off the Casio is the inability to edit the footage in Premiere CS4. I downloaded a clip from their site, http://www.exilim.com/intl/ex_f1/ima...v/CIMG0218.ZIP which is 28MB. All I get in Premiere is a green screen. This is a serious put-off for the Casio. I must be able to edit it along with other h.264 footage. It appears to use its own codec hybrid. Not good at all. Why can't these camera manufacturers stick to the industry standard? Found this thread useful: Casio EX-F1 - FullHD (h.264) - VideoHelp.com Thanks again Bob. __________________ Canon XH A1, Letus Elite, WD-H72, Zeiss 35/2, Nikons 24/2.8, 50/1.2, 55/2.8, 85/1.4, Miller DS200, SD 302 FM, 2 X R0DE NTG-3, Senn ew100 G2, SKP 500 G2, Lowel Rifa kit, CS4.

November 2nd, 2009, 11:19 AM	#57
Bob Diaz Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: LA, California Posts: 170	All the 300 FPS Slow motion footage is 448 x336. I'm uploading some 1080/30p footage so you can see the HD output of the camera. Now many HD video cameras shoot 1080/60i and 108030p, but you are not going to see a camera shoot 1080/60p. TVs may offer that, but the video cameras don't offer that. I use FCE (Final Cut Express), so I like to down convert the 1080/30p footage into 720/30p and edit in that resolution. FCE will edit the 1080/30p footage as 1080/60i, but I just like the 720/30p mode more. I have never used Premiere CS4. The link for the video is: Winter On the farm in Idaho, Test shot on Vimeo The tags I used for the video are: Idaho, winter, ice, snow, Samsung, HMC20c, camera, 1080p, test, video, 30p, farm, Bob, Diaz, BobDiaz If you want to go direct to Vimeo and search for it. If you have an account with Vimeo and log into it, you can download the source file. Bob Diaz

November 3rd, 2009, 04:11 PM	#59
Christopher Warwick Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roma, Italy Posts: 83	I don't know of any other cameras in the sub-$1000 category other than the five stated below that are capable of slow motion functionality. Made a little cribsheet to compare them by, might be useful to others. In the end after much researching I bought the Casio EX-F1. Got a good deal at £435 including shipping. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Canon XH A1, Letus Elite, WD-H72, Zeiss 35/2, Nikons 24/2.8, 50/1.2, 55/2.8, 85/1.4, Miller DS200, SD 302 FM, 2 X R0DE NTG-3, Senn ew100 G2, SKP 500 G2, Lowel Rifa kit, CS4.