Shake 4.1 at DVinfo.net

Aram Rian · November 12th, 2006, 01:59 AM

hi there.
is Shake a) a stand-alone application or b) does it have to be used in conjunction with Final Cut Pro?
if a) - has it got all the essential tools for video editing and post production, or is it merely a compositing application?
if b) will it work with Final Cut Express as well?
thanks.

Chris Hocking · November 12th, 2006, 02:57 AM

Hi Aram,

Shake is an image compositing package used in the post-production industry. Available for Mac OS X and GNU/Linux (support for IRIX and Microsoft Windows was once available, but has since been discontinued), Shake delivers visual effects and digital compositing for film, HD and commercials. It enables complex image processing sequences to be designed through the connection of effects "nodes" in a graphical workflow interface. This type of compositing interface allows great flexibility, including the ability to modify the parameters of an earlier image processing step "in context" (while viewing the final composite). Certain other compositing packages such as eyeon Fusion, Nuke, and Cineon, also feature a node-based approach.

Shake is a standalone application - you do not need Final Cut Studio or Final Cut Pro to use it. However, it works very well with Final Cut Pro. Just think Soundtrack Pro, but for special effects. You right click on a item and send to Shake. Easy! But, Shake is not a non-linear editor - it will not replace Final Cut Pro or Final Cut Express. It's an image compositing package. But it makes the perfect addition to the suite!

Shake will also work very well with Final Cut Express. However, if you're using Shake, chances are you won't be working in DV quality - so Final Cut Studio is the more appropriate option. Shake has been used in such films as Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings and King Kong, as well as Harry Potter movies. It's a very professional tool. Sending DV quality images into it seems a little silly. But anyway!

All of these questions are answered in more detail at: http://www.apple.com/shake/

Chris!

Aram Rian · November 12th, 2006, 03:50 AM

thanks for the quick reply, Chris.
i'm a bit confused now. so it's not an application for working with a DV footage then? hmm, and it seemed so affordable...

Chris Hocking · November 12th, 2006, 03:59 AM

Sorry for the confusion.

YES you can certainly use DV footage in Shake! Shake can handle pretty much ANYTHING you throw at it.

However, what I meant was that for the visual effects work Shake is a master at, such as pulling chroma keys, etc. you want to use a higher quality format than DV.

It wasn't always so affordable! Version 2 was released in 1999 for Windows NT and Irix, costing $9900 US per license, or $3900 for a render-only licence. The release of Shake 3.5 at NAB saw the price drop to $2999 for Mac OS X and $4999 for Linux and Irix. Shake's pricing has jumped all over the place! This year it dropped from $2999 to $499 for Mac OS X (but remained the same for Linux).

So YES, you can use it with DV footage - no problems!

It just makes me laugh that such a powerful program that is used on IMAX features is being used so casually for little visual effects on home DV movies.

Hope this clears things up!

Chris Hocking · November 12th, 2006, 04:02 AM

Also Aram, it's worth noting that Apple recently announced that they would end support for Shake, as they begin work on the next-generation software, rumoured to be known as codename Phenomenon. You can purchase the Shake source code for a mere $50,000. So that's the primary reason for the reason HUGE price drop...

There are lots of threads on DVi that discuss the end of Shake. Have a search around...

Aram Rian · November 12th, 2006, 04:47 AM

thanks again, Chris. well, i had music videos in mind, not home videos...
i just thought Shake, being more affordable than FCP (by the way i've got FCE and Adobe Premiere for Mac), was quite a tempting option... would you recommend going for Final Cut Studio?

Chris Hocking · November 12th, 2006, 02:17 PM

As I have said, Shake is for digital compositing and effects. It's not an non-linear editor. It's a COMPLETELY different program to Final Cut Pro, Final Cut Express and Adobe Premiere.

If you are shooting on a DV camera - then Final Cut Express will do the job.

I've never used Premiere on a Mac, but I presume it can pretty much do everything Final Cut Pro can.

Only purchase Shake if you need to do digital compositing and effects. See the Apple Shake site for details on what it can do.

Only purchase Final Cut Studio, which includes Final Cut Pro, if you find you need power than Final Cut Express can provide. Have a look at the Apple site to see the differences between the two products.

Keep in mind, SHAKE IS A VERY PRO LEVEL PROGRAM. Because of this, you can just install it and start using it. Depending on how much experience you've had with this kind of application, it could take you a while to get the hang of it. For example, YOU NEED A THREE BUTTON MOUSE for it even to operate.

My suggestion: stick with Final Cut Express until you've mastered it. Once you've outgrown it or start working in bigger and better formats, then concider purchasing Final Cut Studio. Or, if you need more audio power or want to add some motion effects, purchase Final Cut Studio which includes Soundtrack Pro, Motion, DVD Studio Pro, LifeType, etc.

I think you should REALLY have a look at the Apple site to get your head around what all this software is actually used for. You still seem a bit confused.

Hope this helps!

Boyd Ostroff · November 12th, 2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hocking

I've never used Premiere on a Mac, but I presume it can pretty much do everything Final Cut Pro can.

Wow, I was an early adopter of Premiere on the Mac.... version 1.x which I ran on a PowerMac 8100 with a Radius VideoVision card back in 1996! I believe Premiere was a Mac-only program then. I upgraded to a newer version around the time that FCP 2 came out, and I really didn't like it. After a few months of frustration I got FCP 3 and gave up on the Mac version Premiere. Shortly after that, Adobe dropped all support for Premiere on the Mac. I don't think they ever released an OSX native version, did they?

Unless something new has come along which I've missed, Mac Premiere certainly doesn't do anywhere near as much as FCP, and I think it would have to run in the Classic Environment on a PowerPC Mac. But of course, you could boot one of the Intel Macs into Windows XP and then run the PC version of Premiere if you really want to go in that direction...

Cole McDonald · November 12th, 2006, 04:46 PM

Shake also does a phenomenal job with smoothing camera motion if you are in need of that kind of functionality.

Chris Hocking · November 12th, 2006, 06:10 PM

Opps! Yes Boyd, you are absolutely right! Premiere was discontinued on the Mac platform years ago. Premiere Pro never made it to Mac. It would have to run on the Classic Platform.

So yes, forget Premiere on a Mac and go straight to FCP or Avid. Final Cut Express and iMovie are cheaper (and thus less pro) alternatives.

Thanks Boyd for pointing that out!

Djee Smit · November 15th, 2006, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole McDonald

Shake also does a phenomenal job with smoothing camera motion if you are in need of that kind of functionality.

so true, Shake really saved my life :-P using a dolly with jib on airwheels for a videoclip. The shots ended up so shaky is was afraid I could'nt use any dolly and jib shots. Luckely I read about a videotutorial on smoothing with shake here on dvinfo

Rob Richard · December 14th, 2006, 12:09 PM

There is also always the 30 day trial version of Shake to get a real idea of what it can do...

November 12th, 2006, 01:59 AM	#1
Aram Rian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, UK / Yerevan, Armenia Posts: 93	Shake 4.1 hi there. is Shake a) a stand-alone application or b) does it have to be used in conjunction with Final Cut Pro? if a) - has it got all the essential tools for video editing and post production, or is it merely a compositing application? if b) will it work with Final Cut Express as well? thanks. __________________ "I do detest everything which is not perfectly mutual." Lord Byron

November 12th, 2006, 03:50 AM	#3
Aram Rian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, UK / Yerevan, Armenia Posts: 93	thanks for the quick reply, Chris. i'm a bit confused now. so it's not an application for working with a DV footage then? hmm, and it seemed so affordable... __________________ "I do detest everything which is not perfectly mutual." Lord Byron

November 12th, 2006, 04:47 AM	#6
Aram Rian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, UK / Yerevan, Armenia Posts: 93	thanks again, Chris. well, i had music videos in mind, not home videos... i just thought Shake, being more affordable than FCP (by the way i've got FCE and Adobe Premiere for Mac), was quite a tempting option... would you recommend going for Final Cut Studio? __________________ "I do detest everything which is not perfectly mutual." Lord Byron

November 12th, 2006, 04:46 PM	#9
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	Shake also does a phenomenal job with smoothing camera motion if you are in need of that kind of functionality. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

December 14th, 2006, 12:09 PM	#12
Rob Richard Tourist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saint John, NB, Canada Posts: 2	Trial There is also always the 30 day trial version of Shake to get a real idea of what it can do...

November 12th, 2006, 02:57 AM	#2
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Hi Aram, Shake is an image compositing package used in the post-production industry. Available for Mac OS X and GNU/Linux (support for IRIX and Microsoft Windows was once available, but has since been discontinued), Shake delivers visual effects and digital compositing for film, HD and commercials. It enables complex image processing sequences to be designed through the connection of effects "nodes" in a graphical workflow interface. This type of compositing interface allows great flexibility, including the ability to modify the parameters of an earlier image processing step "in context" (while viewing the final composite). Certain other compositing packages such as eyeon Fusion, Nuke, and Cineon, also feature a node-based approach. Shake is a standalone application - you do not need Final Cut Studio or Final Cut Pro to use it. However, it works very well with Final Cut Pro. Just think Soundtrack Pro, but for special effects. You right click on a item and send to Shake. Easy! But, Shake is not a non-linear editor - it will not replace Final Cut Pro or Final Cut Express. It's an image compositing package. But it makes the perfect addition to the suite! Shake will also work very well with Final Cut Express. However, if you're using Shake, chances are you won't be working in DV quality - so Final Cut Studio is the more appropriate option. Shake has been used in such films as Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings and King Kong, as well as Harry Potter movies. It's a very professional tool. Sending DV quality images into it seems a little silly. But anyway! All of these questions are answered in more detail at: http://www.apple.com/shake/ Chris!

November 12th, 2006, 03:59 AM	#4
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Sorry for the confusion. YES you can certainly use DV footage in Shake! Shake can handle pretty much ANYTHING you throw at it. However, what I meant was that for the visual effects work Shake is a master at, such as pulling chroma keys, etc. you want to use a higher quality format than DV. It wasn't always so affordable! Version 2 was released in 1999 for Windows NT and Irix, costing $9900 US per license, or $3900 for a render-only licence. The release of Shake 3.5 at NAB saw the price drop to $2999 for Mac OS X and $4999 for Linux and Irix. Shake's pricing has jumped all over the place! This year it dropped from $2999 to $499 for Mac OS X (but remained the same for Linux). So YES, you can use it with DV footage - no problems! It just makes me laugh that such a powerful program that is used on IMAX features is being used so casually for little visual effects on home DV movies. Hope this clears things up!

November 12th, 2006, 04:02 AM	#5
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Also Aram, it's worth noting that Apple recently announced that they would end support for Shake, as they begin work on the next-generation software, rumoured to be known as codename Phenomenon. You can purchase the Shake source code for a mere $50,000. So that's the primary reason for the reason HUGE price drop... There are lots of threads on DVi that discuss the end of Shake. Have a search around...

November 12th, 2006, 02:17 PM	#7
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	As I have said, Shake is for digital compositing and effects. It's not an non-linear editor. It's a COMPLETELY different program to Final Cut Pro, Final Cut Express and Adobe Premiere. If you are shooting on a DV camera - then Final Cut Express will do the job. I've never used Premiere on a Mac, but I presume it can pretty much do everything Final Cut Pro can. Only purchase Shake if you need to do digital compositing and effects. See the Apple Shake site for details on what it can do. Only purchase Final Cut Studio, which includes Final Cut Pro, if you find you need power than Final Cut Express can provide. Have a look at the Apple site to see the differences between the two products. Keep in mind, SHAKE IS A VERY PRO LEVEL PROGRAM. Because of this, you can just install it and start using it. Depending on how much experience you've had with this kind of application, it could take you a while to get the hang of it. For example, YOU NEED A THREE BUTTON MOUSE for it even to operate. My suggestion: stick with Final Cut Express until you've mastered it. Once you've outgrown it or start working in bigger and better formats, then concider purchasing Final Cut Studio. Or, if you need more audio power or want to add some motion effects, purchase Final Cut Studio which includes Soundtrack Pro, Motion, DVD Studio Pro, LifeType, etc. I think you should REALLY have a look at the Apple site to get your head around what all this software is actually used for. You still seem a bit confused. Hope this helps!

November 12th, 2006, 06:10 PM	#10
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Opps! Yes Boyd, you are absolutely right! Premiere was discontinued on the Mac platform years ago. Premiere Pro never made it to Mac. It would have to run on the Classic Platform. So yes, forget Premiere on a Mac and go straight to FCP or Avid. Final Cut Express and iMovie are cheaper (and thus less pro) alternatives. Thanks Boyd for pointing that out!