Mirror Image at DVinfo.net

Chris Donnelly · October 6th, 2007, 10:30 PM

I have a Music Video shoot coming up and i'm looking to
have the singer in front of the mirror but have the mirror reflect the singer doing different things, than the actual image.

any suggestions on the best way to do this? I'd like for it to be as seamless as possible.

i have After Effect 7 and Premiere Pro

THank You!!!!

Daniel Ross · October 6th, 2007, 11:26 PM

http://ci-pro.com/movies/films/mirro...roredImage.mov

Film from a while ago.

I did this in AE using masks to separate the layers. You will film two plates. Do whatever you can to keep the plates from overlapping, or you'll have more work ahead masking.

It's simple split screening, really.

I'd look for a tutorial on cloning someone as the same principles apply.

This is one I recommend, written by a friend of mine and what I used when making the video above, using the technique for the first time.
http://www.durbnpoisn.com/films/cloneTut/index.asp

If you've got more questions, I'll try to answer.

Emre Safak · October 7th, 2007, 12:26 PM

The trick is filming the two plates with the same motion. Does the camera move?

Chris Donnelly · October 7th, 2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emre Safak

The trick is filming the two plates with the same motion. Does the camera move?

I'd love for it to be a handheld look.. not shaky but a little sway.. very personal.

Would Green screen be the option?

Chris Donnelly · October 7th, 2007, 05:46 PM

Daniel -

THank you for the input, i'll give it a try for sure..

Alex Sprinkle · October 8th, 2007, 10:41 AM

Another option, since you're using AE is to film both shots on a tripod, mask it out the way you want it to look, then add the "wiggler" effect. I've gotten a nice "handheld" feel from that.

Martin Pauly · October 8th, 2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Sprinkle

Another option, since you're using AE is to film both shots on a tripod, mask it out the way you want it to look, then add the "wiggler" effect.

Would that really work? As the camera moves around, the relection in the mirror (as seen by the camera) would have to change somewhat, right? Maybe if the movement is subtle enough, it might still look right...

- Martin

Daniel Ross · October 8th, 2007, 04:46 PM

Motion may be possible to make work.

A pan could be done in two ways:
1. Repeat the [camera] move twice.
2. Do the move with one layer, and keep the camera steady with the other; then place the still shot into the moving shot.

If you have a lot of motion, you will want a motion control camera, though that's expensive.

Handheld is a really bad choice, unless you REALLY know what you're doing with the FX. Making them match up will be horrible. You could track them together, but it'll make your job SO much harder, and there are some things that would entirely not work, like edges being cut off when tracked back in.

Using the 2nd method above, you could try to just place a still shot of the second layer into a handheld shot, but that is difficult and there are some problems.

Digital camera shake can be effective, though it would indeed be limited. You'd get some less-than-steady motion, but not real perspective changes, or you'd run into problems.
Note that this method would also result in lost resolution.

Greenscreen is not really applicable in this situation, with some possible exceptions.
It would give you separate layers, but then you would need to match the background, and that's a pain in itself.
Handheld would be ever harder, with 3 layers then to match.
Perhaps handheld background with 3 plates-- BG, and 2 people, would work, but that is difficult.

One option, if you want to go all out, is separating the two layers using greenscreen, then creating a pseudo-3D '2.5D' version of the set in After Effects (3D layers, cameras) and placing the actors into this. Then you could spin the camera around as you want.

This is getting very complex.

The easy way-- lock down the camera, mask (hopefully in a shot where they don't cross) the actor(s), then layer. Done.

Harder-- movement...

A key here is planning in the filming stage, and probably doing some tests. Careful work here will make post much easier.

Alex Sprinkle · October 8th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Pauly

Would that really work? As the camera moves around, the relection in the mirror (as seen by the camera) would have to change somewhat, right? Maybe if the movement is subtle enough, it might still look right...

- Martin

What if you created a Null object, motion tracked to the null, then parented both layers to the null, pre-comp'ed it and THEN wiggled it?

Daniel Ross · October 8th, 2007, 11:15 PM

That would require a number of separate layers and parallax within the objects (depth) would be somewhat off. Once setup, after separating all the layers, it would be very promising, though probably not perfect still.

Chris Donnelly · October 22nd, 2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ross

That would require a number of separate layers and parallax within the objects (depth) would be somewhat off. Once setup, after separating all the layers, it would be very promising, though probably not perfect still.

Well fellas! i shot the video.. and i will be done editing in the next week or so.. i'll post a link for you guys to see the results.

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE!!

Chris

October 6th, 2007, 10:30 PM	#1
Chris Donnelly Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas,TX Posts: 30	Mirror Image I have a Music Video shoot coming up and i'm looking to have the singer in front of the mirror but have the mirror reflect the singer doing different things, than the actual image. any suggestions on the best way to do this? I'd like for it to be as seamless as possible. i have After Effect 7 and Premiere Pro THank You!!!!

October 6th, 2007, 11:26 PM	#2
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	http://ci-pro.com/movies/films/mirro...roredImage.mov Film from a while ago. I did this in AE using masks to separate the layers. You will film two plates. Do whatever you can to keep the plates from overlapping, or you'll have more work ahead masking. It's simple split screening, really. I'd look for a tutorial on cloning someone as the same principles apply. This is one I recommend, written by a friend of mine and what I used when making the video above, using the technique for the first time. http://www.durbnpoisn.com/films/cloneTut/index.asp If you've got more questions, I'll try to answer.

October 7th, 2007, 12:26 PM	#3
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	The trick is filming the two plates with the same motion. Does the camera move?

October 7th, 2007, 05:46 PM	#5
Chris Donnelly Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dallas,TX Posts: 30	Daniel - THank you for the input, i'll give it a try for sure..

October 8th, 2007, 10:41 AM	#6
Alex Sprinkle Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moore, Oklahoma Posts: 408	Another option, since you're using AE is to film both shots on a tripod, mask it out the way you want it to look, then add the "wiggler" effect. I've gotten a nice "handheld" feel from that.

October 8th, 2007, 04:46 PM	#8
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	Motion may be possible to make work. A pan could be done in two ways: 1. Repeat the [camera] move twice. 2. Do the move with one layer, and keep the camera steady with the other; then place the still shot into the moving shot. If you have a lot of motion, you will want a motion control camera, though that's expensive. Handheld is a really bad choice, unless you REALLY know what you're doing with the FX. Making them match up will be horrible. You could track them together, but it'll make your job SO much harder, and there are some things that would entirely not work, like edges being cut off when tracked back in. Using the 2nd method above, you could try to just place a still shot of the second layer into a handheld shot, but that is difficult and there are some problems. Digital camera shake can be effective, though it would indeed be limited. You'd get some less-than-steady motion, but not real perspective changes, or you'd run into problems. Note that this method would also result in lost resolution. Greenscreen is not really applicable in this situation, with some possible exceptions. It would give you separate layers, but then you would need to match the background, and that's a pain in itself. Handheld would be ever harder, with 3 layers then to match. Perhaps handheld background with 3 plates-- BG, and 2 people, would work, but that is difficult. One option, if you want to go all out, is separating the two layers using greenscreen, then creating a pseudo-3D '2.5D' version of the set in After Effects (3D layers, cameras) and placing the actors into this. Then you could spin the camera around as you want. This is getting very complex. The easy way-- lock down the camera, mask (hopefully in a shot where they don't cross) the actor(s), then layer. Done. Harder-- movement... A key here is planning in the filming stage, and probably doing some tests. Careful work here will make post much easier.

October 8th, 2007, 11:15 PM	#10
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	That would require a number of separate layers and parallax within the objects (depth) would be somewhat off. Once setup, after separating all the layers, it would be very promising, though probably not perfect still.