D2D captures tape preroll at DVinfo.net

Neil Goodwill · April 10th, 2007, 08:47 AM

I have just recently bought an nNovia QuickCapture 40gb D2D because nobody had a bad word to say about it, not like some other D2Ds!
I am using it with my Canon XL1 triggering the recording which creates a new clip each time the start/stop button is pressed. What amazed me is that the nNovia captures the tape preroll so that I end up with a strange 2-3 second jump cut at the end of every clip. Is this normal with every D2D? It certainly adds a lot of time to the editing process when there is also the effects of Clip Boundary Granularity to be accounted for. This is when 2 secs of the previous clip is added to the next clip. All very confusing and time consuming!
Does anyone know where to download firmware updates because there does not seem to be any links on the nNovia site?

Daniel Kohl · April 25th, 2007, 03:36 PM

Hi Neil,

I have no idea why this is happening. I have never worked with the Nnovia. I'm kind of surprised that the Nnovia even records TC. I thought that it was an analog to digital recorder... Okay you bought a D2D Nnovia - I have no idea, sorry.

... You have it probably figured out by now anyway.

http://www.nnovia.com/faq.php

Cheers,

DK

Neil Goodwill · May 7th, 2007, 05:26 PM

Thanks for trying your best to help Daniel. I haven't figured it out yet. It is strange cosidering it should behave like a miniature DV tapedeck and they don't record preroll or backwind when recording from a camera or exporting from a PC. Do other D2Ds do the same as the nNovia?
The firmware link on the nNovia is now working so I will let you know how I get on.

Daniel Kohl · May 8th, 2007, 04:55 PM

Hi Neil,

It doesn't appear as though anyone has had a similar Pre-roll problem like yours. I haven't had it with my FS-4Pro shooting SD DV... Although there was something with overlapping TC sometimes when shooting SYNC SLAVE (with tape). But I think that that is something different from what you are describing. The FS-4 takes the timecode from from the tape (I believe). So when my XL-1s goes out of standby ... I'm not sure anymore, but there have been situations where the TC at the end of one take was the same as the TC at the beginning of the next. However, I didn't find this to be a big problem since I try to avoid (and succeed at not) using the extreme beginning or end of a take in my editing. This phenomenon would also only be potentially bothersome if one needed to batch capture from the original tapes after editing with the files from the FS-4 (which shouldn't really need to happen, ... that is unless other things have gone wrong).

Not much help Sorry.

Cheers,

DK

Neil Goodwill · May 15th, 2007, 05:50 AM

I have been having a very useful and informative email dialogue with nNovia about this problem. They offer a firmware update that converts the drive to NTFS and also makes the QC compatible with HDV. The downside is that they want $200 for it. NTFS means that there would not be 2-4 secs of the next clip in the previous one, just one frame. However, it does not solve the pre-roll problem.
I have noticed the timecode is continuous between clips so what must be happening is that:
1. I press the pause button.
2. The tape backwinds.
3. The QC captures the short interval before the tape parks itself at the next frame after the pause button was pressed.
This footage is no use to me because all you see is sky, ground etc. if I have moved, or a jump cut in the action if I have stayed still.
I reckon the Firestore FS-4 doesn't do this because of what you said Daniel about duplicated timecodes. Do you pre-stripe your tapes? That might solve that problem. I have told nNovia that if they can come up with firmware that enables the QC to work in the same way as the Firestore I would gladly buy it because the QC is wonderfully strong, reliable and totally silent.
I wonder what would happen if I formatted the drive to NTFS. The QC would probably stop talking to it. I notice that you changed your drive completely. Was it difficult?

Neil Goodwill · January 1st, 2008, 11:50 AM

I have recently been trying the QC with my Sony DSR-500WSP, and it works perfectly! It doesn't capture the preroll at all so my problem with the XL1 must be down to the peculiarities of Canon equipment. The QC still bungs about a second of the next clip on to the end of the previous clip, but I think I can live with that.
What I need now is the cradle that nNovia make that holds the QC, and has a male v-mount on one side and a female on the other side so that it can be mounted between the camcorder and the battery. Does anyone out there have one they want to sell? I may be able to make one myself because I don't think it is worth the price that nNovia want for it.

Neil Goodwill · January 22nd, 2008, 09:35 AM

I tried changing the HDD from the FAT32 40gb to an NTFS 80gb and this is what happened.
1 The nNovia was switched on to VTR and a message said 'Error wrong disk format'. The size was correctly reported in the amount of recording time available.
2 I pressed record then play and it started recording as normal.
3 Connected to the PC the nNovia was described as being FAT32, so it must have re-formatted the drive from NTFS in order to record the clips.

It looks like I will have to buy the firmware upgrade, the HDV compatibility will be useful anyway. What does everyone think?

Daniel Kohl · January 22nd, 2008, 02:46 PM

Hi Neil,

I hate to see you talking to yourself like this. I wish I could offer some input, but I have not had the opportunity to even try-out or hold a Nnovia QC. $200 for the update sounds pretty steep, especially if the update won't fix all of things you would like it to.

It's too bad that these devices don't work 100%, it seems like they could. I wonder why the QC doesn't need a fan to keep it cool.

I would be interested to know if you pick-up the vibration from the hard drive in the QC on the camera's onboard mic when you mount it with the V-bracket. I have stopped mounting my FS-4 to anything touching my XL-1s because of the noise it makes in the audio, when I'm shooting with sound. Doing this of course increases the risk of the 4 pin FW cable falling out by accident. I almost only use the FS-4 for time-lapse or Shooting without sound work now a days. Damn shame.

Cheers, and good luck. Keep posting - at least one person is interested in how you fare with the QC (me). :')

April 10th, 2007, 08:47 AM	#1
Neil Goodwill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dundee, United Kingdom Posts: 42	D2D captures tape preroll I have just recently bought an nNovia QuickCapture 40gb D2D because nobody had a bad word to say about it, not like some other D2Ds! I am using it with my Canon XL1 triggering the recording which creates a new clip each time the start/stop button is pressed. What amazed me is that the nNovia captures the tape preroll so that I end up with a strange 2-3 second jump cut at the end of every clip. Is this normal with every D2D? It certainly adds a lot of time to the editing process when there is also the effects of Clip Boundary Granularity to be accounted for. This is when 2 secs of the previous clip is added to the next clip. All very confusing and time consuming! Does anyone know where to download firmware updates because there does not seem to be any links on the nNovia site?

April 25th, 2007, 03:36 PM	#2
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Hi Neil, I have no idea why this is happening. I have never worked with the Nnovia. I'm kind of surprised that the Nnovia even records TC. I thought that it was an analog to digital recorder... Okay you bought a D2D Nnovia - I have no idea, sorry. ... You have it probably figured out by now anyway. http://www.nnovia.com/faq.php Cheers, DK __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1 Last edited by Daniel Kohl; April 25th, 2007 at 03:50 PM. Reason: found something that may apply

May 8th, 2007, 04:55 PM	#4
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Hi Neil, It doesn't appear as though anyone has had a similar Pre-roll problem like yours. I haven't had it with my FS-4Pro shooting SD DV... Although there was something with overlapping TC sometimes when shooting SYNC SLAVE (with tape). But I think that that is something different from what you are describing. The FS-4 takes the timecode from from the tape (I believe). So when my XL-1s goes out of standby ... I'm not sure anymore, but there have been situations where the TC at the end of one take was the same as the TC at the beginning of the next. However, I didn't find this to be a big problem since I try to avoid (and succeed at not) using the extreme beginning or end of a take in my editing. This phenomenon would also only be potentially bothersome if one needed to batch capture from the original tapes after editing with the files from the FS-4 (which shouldn't really need to happen, ... that is unless other things have gone wrong). Not much help Sorry. Cheers, DK __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

May 15th, 2007, 05:50 AM	#5
Neil Goodwill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dundee, United Kingdom Posts: 42	I have been having a very useful and informative email dialogue with nNovia about this problem. They offer a firmware update that converts the drive to NTFS and also makes the QC compatible with HDV. The downside is that they want $200 for it. NTFS means that there would not be 2-4 secs of the next clip in the previous one, just one frame. However, it does not solve the pre-roll problem. I have noticed the timecode is continuous between clips so what must be happening is that: 1. I press the pause button. 2. The tape backwinds. 3. The QC captures the short interval before the tape parks itself at the next frame after the pause button was pressed. This footage is no use to me because all you see is sky, ground etc. if I have moved, or a jump cut in the action if I have stayed still. I reckon the Firestore FS-4 doesn't do this because of what you said Daniel about duplicated timecodes. Do you pre-stripe your tapes? That might solve that problem. I have told nNovia that if they can come up with firmware that enables the QC to work in the same way as the Firestore I would gladly buy it because the QC is wonderfully strong, reliable and totally silent. I wonder what would happen if I formatted the drive to NTFS. The QC would probably stop talking to it. I notice that you changed your drive completely. Was it difficult? Last edited by Neil Goodwill; May 15th, 2007 at 06:30 AM.

January 22nd, 2008, 02:46 PM	#8
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Hi Neil, I hate to see you talking to yourself like this. I wish I could offer some input, but I have not had the opportunity to even try-out or hold a Nnovia QC. $200 for the update sounds pretty steep, especially if the update won't fix all of things you would like it to. It's too bad that these devices don't work 100%, it seems like they could. I wonder why the QC doesn't need a fan to keep it cool. I would be interested to know if you pick-up the vibration from the hard drive in the QC on the camera's onboard mic when you mount it with the V-bracket. I have stopped mounting my FS-4 to anything touching my XL-1s because of the noise it makes in the audio, when I'm shooting with sound. Doing this of course increases the risk of the 4 pin FW cable falling out by accident. I almost only use the FS-4 for time-lapse or Shooting without sound work now a days. Damn shame. Cheers, and good luck. Keep posting - at least one person is interested in how you fare with the QC (me). :') __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

May 7th, 2007, 05:26 PM	#3
Neil Goodwill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dundee, United Kingdom Posts: 42	Thanks for trying your best to help Daniel. I haven't figured it out yet. It is strange cosidering it should behave like a miniature DV tapedeck and they don't record preroll or backwind when recording from a camera or exporting from a PC. Do other D2Ds do the same as the nNovia? The firmware link on the nNovia is now working so I will let you know how I get on.

January 1st, 2008, 11:50 AM	#6
Neil Goodwill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dundee, United Kingdom Posts: 42	I have recently been trying the QC with my Sony DSR-500WSP, and it works perfectly! It doesn't capture the preroll at all so my problem with the XL1 must be down to the peculiarities of Canon equipment. The QC still bungs about a second of the next clip on to the end of the previous clip, but I think I can live with that. What I need now is the cradle that nNovia make that holds the QC, and has a male v-mount on one side and a female on the other side so that it can be mounted between the camcorder and the battery. Does anyone out there have one they want to sell? I may be able to make one myself because I don't think it is worth the price that nNovia want for it.

January 22nd, 2008, 09:35 AM	#7
Neil Goodwill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dundee, United Kingdom Posts: 42	I tried changing the HDD from the FAT32 40gb to an NTFS 80gb and this is what happened. 1 The nNovia was switched on to VTR and a message said 'Error wrong disk format'. The size was correctly reported in the amount of recording time available. 2 I pressed record then play and it started recording as normal. 3 Connected to the PC the nNovia was described as being FAT32, so it must have re-formatted the drive from NTFS in order to record the clips. It looks like I will have to buy the firmware upgrade, the HDV compatibility will be useful anyway. What does everyone think?