DN-60 and Canon XH-A1

[Jim Bucciferro]

I have a Canon XH-A1 and just purchased a DN-60. Before I decided to purchase the DN-60 I got a demo unit from Datavideo. The unit worked great and I was able to record without using a tape.
I ordered one from B&H and the unit doesn't seem to work right. It doesn't sync with the camera as the other one had and sometimes doesn't come up.
I tried 2 different cables and I get the same issue.

Has anyone had any similar issues with the DN-60 and the A1?

Thanks

[Allan Black]

Jim even if you get it working, headwise you'll be waiting for it to go out again, I'd return it.

Cheers.

[Jim Bucciferro]

Thanks Allan,
I sent it back in exchange for a new one. If that one fails I will try something else. I was impressed with the loaner unit, but I'm getting discouraged. Hopefully the exchange will work better.

[Jim Bucciferro]

So I got an exchange and it worked for a few minutes. Made a few recordings, made media files and loaded them into Premiere and everything seemed great!
Went to turn it on and now it's dead...changed the batteries, used the AC adapter - nothing.

After two attempts my feeling is that this device is a piece of junk and not worth any more effort.

Going to look into the Canon FS-CF Pro.

Jm

[Panagiotis Raris]

hmm, might be firmware. what card are you using? i had tons of firmware issues at first.

[Greg Clark]

I own three. You definitely need the latest update. They will work fine if you follow instructions exactly in order. Search the DN60 section on Dvinfo for specifics. Don't use ribbon between DN60 and Camera. They will record NTFS. Most other recorders only record Fat32.

[Jim Bucciferro]

Well the unit never came back up -no screen, nothing. I sent it back to B&H for a refund. I really wanted to like this unit too. Maybe I just got a couple bad ones.

[Steve Sickman]

Originally Posted by Greg Clark

They will record NTFS. Most other recorders only record Fat32.

This may be semantics, but they actually don't record NTFS. The unit is actually a capture device that sets up the file system after Make Media Files is run. I bring this up because I have had constant problems with mine and I believe that the fault lies with the MMF routine. When you format the CF card, no matter which file system you choose in the setup (FAT32 or NTFS) the card is formatted as FAT32. You can check this simply by running the format routine then checking the card in your PC. Only after running MMF will it change to NTFS. My issues have largely been cards that won't read after running MMF or having to run MMF multiple times to get the card to read. Sometimes all the files end up in one bin even though I have changed bins in the recording session. I have had long clips get broken into multiple files, and also multiple clips get placed into the same file. Recently I had a split second of previously recorded material (that should have been wiped out on formatting) get spliced into three clips that all were placed in the same file. Then last week the real disaster, a card that contained an interview which gave me the "card needs to be formatted" error when I put it in the reader, then the same message when I put it back in the DN-60. Recently I began checking the recordings using the Play routine on the DN-60 back to my XH-A1. These all seem to be fine every time, including the interview clip which I just mentioned. The problem seems to be after MMF is run and you then try to read the cards. I have experienced the same problems with multiple readers on both of my PCs. I have the latest (and probably last) firmware update, and have tried to resolve this with Datavideo. They seem to be baffled and insist there are no widespread problems with the units.

[Laurence Hughes]

Originally Posted by Steve Sickman

Recently I began checking the recordings using the Play routine on the DN-60 back to my XH-A1. These all seem to be fine every time, including the interview clip which I just mentioned. The problem seems to be after MMF is run and you then try to read the cards. I have experienced the same problems with multiple readers on both of my PCs. I have the latest (and probably last) firmware update, and have tried to resolve this with Datavideo. They seem to be baffled and insist there are no widespread problems with the units.

I have recently purchased a DN-60 here in the UK and I am having the same problems with the Make Media Files function appearing to be 'faulty'.

I am using the DN-60 with my Canon XHA1 to film football matches in HDV (.m2t files), so I aim to have two clips in the bin, one for the first half and another for the second half. I am recording to tape on the XHA1 as an intended back-up, so I therefore pause the recording at half-time while I change tapes.
Everything seems to be recording properly with the displayed timecode correctly reflecting the length of filming, but when I pause the camera at the end of the match and then turn the camera off, the DN-60 gets stuck on some sort of pause in the record mode where the red light is flashing and it says 'record' on the 4th line of the display (without actually recording because I have turned the camera off). It is also flashing the message 'No Input' and it also says only 1/2 on the second row of the display for the bin instead of 2/2.
I then have real trouble trying to get out of record mode into Tools to make the media files, but after randomly turning the dial and pressing it a few times I manage to do so.

When I click on Make Media Files, the red light (correctly) intermittently dims while rendering. However, it only seems to render the first clip, as it still says 1/2 in the display once the cycle has finished. There appears to be no way of using the dial to get MMF rendering the second clip. When I take the CF card out and put it in my PC and/or laptop, the second clip is always corrupt with no timecode and the first clip always has issues as well whereby it will not scroll properly using Multi-Trim Video in my Corel Video Studio X6 program, even if I copy the file from the CF card onto my PC or laptop's hard drive. If I try converting the first half file from Transport Stream (as it comes out) to a .m2t Program Stream or any other format, it just crashes the program.

Strangely though, if I play the first half clip back in Windows Media Player either directly from the CF card or from a hard drive, it plays back perfectly, while I can even view the second half footage in W.M.P. even though it doesn't appear to have gone through the MMF process !, albeit only in real time and without being able to jump to certain parts of it though. (It just goes back to the beginning when I do that because the timecode is corrupt).

So...I am guessing here that maybe I am doing something wrong in the recording setup which does not allow the recording to stop properly when it should at the end of the game, and that is why MMF is not rendering the second clip and probably corrupting the first ?

I am using a SanDisk 32GB Extreme 60Mb/s card and have it formatted to NTFS.
I have the camera set to operate the DN-60 on record (with the green button appearing in the camera's viewfinder after about two minutes of waiting for the 'handshake' after connection !).
I then have the DN-60 turned on with the switch up instead of in the middle for 'Auto'...although maybe 'Auto' is what I should be using and I will give that a try next time.
Under Setup - Record Setup, I have 'Sync To Tape Off'. I am not sure if that is correct or not.

There are also loads of other options which I haven't got a clue about, namely Timecode Display (Internal or External ?), Set DV Hidden Mode (Disable or Enable ?), and what the readings on the Display mean under Status - Record. There is a date on there saying 7/15/5 which can't be altered.

Finally, my current Firmware for the DN-60 is DN605021309155511.
Does that need updating ?

[Greg Clark]

I would like to help you but I am currently away from my DN60 on holidays. Your problem is probably related to the stopping and starting. The DN60 is so fussy that if you make one mistake not following the exact steps it will not record. Hopefully someone else can assist.

[Roger Van Duyn]

Laurence,

I NEVER run make media on the card until I'm completely done with the card, and I've never run into a problem with make media. From my understanding, the make media command sets the entire card to be read as either a FAT 32 formatted device or an NTFS formatted device under Windows, sort of like a quick format maybe. Of course, I could be wrong in my assumption, but that's the understanding I gathered from what I read.

I also don't turn the camera off unless the battery is getting awfully low, but do close the LCD on the camera to save "juice" in the battery. There's a delay resynching the camera to the DN-60 when turning everything back on, and I'm afraid of missing a shot, so I leave everything on unless the batteries are getting low or if I'm done.

I also stick with a card until it's nearly full, then switch to a new one. I do, however, format all my cards and set the bins in advance of going on a shoot. The DN-60 does seem picky, but the purpose is probably to keep the files in their proper order.

[Laurence Hughes]

Thanks Roger.

Originally Posted by Roger Van Duyn

I NEVER run make media on the card until I'm completely done with the card, and I've never run into a problem with make media. From my understanding, the make media command sets the entire card to be read as either a FAT 32 formatted device or an NTFS formatted device under Windows, sort of like a quick format maybe. Of course, I could be wrong in my assumption, but that's the understanding I gathered from what I read.

I format the card to NTFS before recording and I only run MMF on the card if I need to edit the footage straight after filming...which is normally the case. It doesn't matter if I do it on the final whistle while the DN-60's power is still turned on or if I turn the unit off and then back on again to run MMF when I get home. The second clip still doesn't appear as 2/2 in the display/render in MMF.

Originally Posted by Roger Van Duyn

I also don't turn the camera off unless the battery is getting awfully low, but do close the LCD on the camera to save "juice" in the battery. There's a delay resynching the camera to the DN-60 when turning everything back on, and I'm afraid of missing a shot, so I leave everything on unless the batteries are getting low or if I'm done.

Same here, but when I have done that (because the XHA1 automatically shuts off after a minute on pause while using batteries anyway), it hasn't caused a problem because the DN-60 seems to remain on pause. I wait for the green button re-synch and start recording again. It's at the end of the match when I want to STOP the pause on the DN-60 and get into Tools - MMF that doesn't seem to work properly.

[Roger Van Duyn]

The DN-60 sometimes takes a very long time to resynch with my XH-A1, not so long with my XH-A1S. So I've disabled the power save option on both cameras to avoid having to resynch with their DN-60s. For the XH-A1, it's on pages 83-85 of the manual, choice 16 in the table on page 85. That would avoid the camera shutting down after the first half of the game.

I have a lot more trouble establishing synch with my XH-A1 than with my XH-A1S, presumably due to the difference in the firewire port.

When you finish filming the match, and the DN-60 seems to stay stuck in with record mode flashing, what happens if you push the record knob in on the DN-60? That's how to start and stop recording manually on the unit. Will the light go out and recording stop if you push the knob in?

IF the unit is still recording, and doesn't stop, the last file might not get finalized on the card. Don't know.

[Roger Van Duyn]

Hi Laurence,

One thing I forgot to mention that might help. Before I got the DN-60s, I had another manufacturer's device that stored to a hard drive. Sometimes some of the M2T files couldn't be read by the editing programs. But I found a workaround that saved nearly all the damaged files.

There's a freeware program I was using to capture tapes called HDV Split. One day I read online somewhere, maybe in the forums here, that it had a second tab besides the capturing tab, called "Scenes Splitting" So I tried it on bad files from the hard drive unit and IT FIXED THEM! Or rather, the new files that the program generated were readable by all my editing programs. Often it would split off a smaller file near the head or the tale, where a glitch had occurred.

So, you might try running your problem M2T files from the DN-60 through HDV split. If it can read the files from the card, it will close the new file the program generates properly. Although it's an old program, it runs fine under 64 bit Windows 7 Professional.

Hope this helps.

[Laurence Hughes]

Originally Posted by Roger Van Duyn

The DN-60 sometimes takes a very long time to resynch with my XH-A1, not so long with my XH-A1S. So I've disabled the power save option on both cameras to avoid having to resynch with their DN-60s. For the XH-A1, it's on pages 83-85 of the manual, choice 16 in the table on page 85. That would avoid the camera shutting down after the first half of the game.

Thanks Roger. That is a very useful tip. I didn't realise that could be done.
The batteries I use last well over two hours even when using the zoom a lot and having the LCD flipped outwards, so it's definitely safe to keep the camera running during the half-time interval.

Having read through the DN-60's instructions, it looks as if because I am using the top 'always on' switch with Sync To Tape' off and the camera's synch controlling things, when the DN-60's red record light is flashing after turning the camera off, I need to turn the dial one to the right from 'pause/record' to 'stop' before pushing the dial in. Is that correct ? Or maybe that is what I did, but it should have been the other way round where (as you say), you press the dial in first while the red light is flashing on 'pause/record' ?
I will find out this weekend when I film my next match...weather permitting !

As for HDV split, I have used that before about 5 years ago when I first started experimenting with filming in HDV and I couldn't get it to work for me at all.
I forgot to mention that I am now using Windows 8.1. I suspect that may well be causing some of the problems in reading .m2t Transport Stream files from CF cards, particularly with Corel Video Studio X6.
I have ordered a copy of Cyberlink Power Director 12 and will be giving that a try when I receive it.