Focus Enhancement Vrs Nnovia at DVinfo.net

G. Lee Gordon · March 13th, 2008, 12:30 PM

Which is better and why? If there is already a thread for this please guide me there.
Note: I edit with Mac FCP and PC Vegas. My cameras are the JVC HD-200 and Sony vx2000. Use both SD and HDV. 720/24 & 1080/60.

Bill Ravens · March 13th, 2008, 12:40 PM

I'm using both. The nNovia is much better made than the Firestore. However, Vegas seems to have a problem handling clips from nNovia. I've contacted both Sony and nNovia customer support about the dropped frames. Sony blames nNovia, nNovia blames Sony...LOL

The firestore is considerably cheaper than the nNovia unit. altho' the nNovia unit uses replaceable hard drives and has a solid state drive option. Experience on long record sessions with the Firestore, it will drop frames about 45 minutes into the record process. At least, this has been my experience.

Seems none of these solutions are perfect. I'm waiting for Cineform to release SOLID...a solid state recording device. No moving parts.

Vic Owen · March 13th, 2008, 01:13 PM

Bill--

I found your comments were interesting. While I haven't experienced the drops after 45 minutes that you mentioned, I've never been able to solve the problem of audio glitches at the automatic clip boundaries when making continuous recordings (e.g., a stage performance). This has been true with both my original FS-1 (with different hard drives), and my FS-4. Matt McEwen worked with me quite a bit on the problem, but it was never resolved. It's only apparent in the audio path -- the video is fine. On an expanded timeline in FCP, you can see 1-2 audio frames missing. (Apparent in FCP-4, 4.5, 5 & 6) My solution has been to cut-in a short clip from the DV tape at the clip junctions.

Other than that, I've had very few glitches with either Firestore unit.

Bill Ravens · March 13th, 2008, 01:22 PM

Vic...

It wasn't just dropped frames....an entire 2 gig clip was corrupted and unuseable. I have a theory it's related to a very poor IEEE1394 connector design, but, I can't be sure. I can''t trust the firestore unit and never run it without tape as a backup.

G. Lee Gordon · March 13th, 2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

The firestore is considerably cheaper than the nNovia unit.

I'm confused. I thought that the firestore was a lot more expensive? Just a note, I will be using the hd-100.

Vic Owen · March 13th, 2008, 03:33 PM

Yeah, now that you mention it, I also had some major file corruption problems -- more than just dropped frames. As I recall, it was with the FS-1; in all cases, though, I run a DV tape for B/U. I'm too chicken to put all my eggs into one basket. Plus, it gives me the footage I need for the boundary problem mentioned earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Vic...

It wasn't just dropped frames....an entire 2 gig clip was corrupted and unuseable. I have a theory it's related to a very poor IEEE1394 connector design, but, I can't be sure. I can''t trust the firestore unit and never run it without tape as a backup.

Terry Martin · March 14th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Lee,

The short answer to your original question is nNovia, because of the disk file system.

Both companies make multiple models, and ultimate usefulness and features may vary with different cameras, frame rates and NLEs. In my case I shoot only HDV 60i with Canon XH A1 and HV20 cameras and edit with Avid XP. I tried a Firestore FS-C for a day, returned it, and got an nNovia QC HD40 (which was much cheaper than the FS-C.)

Consider this argument. It is common to just record directly to a laptop with good results (and free software). But who would ever want to use a laptop formatted in fat32? Firestore is formatted in fat32 probably because it is the cheapest way to get a mac/pc compatible disk. So the firestore fat32 disk forces file brakes at the 2 Gig limit. Simply loading sequential files into an HDV timeline will loose about one half second at each break point, unless you use dos commands at the computer level to generate a large file from the smaller ones before going to Avid… a real pain in any case.

NNovia, however, uses neither fat32 or NTFS. They developed their own file system designed around video recording, with built in safeguards. The clever little unit then “appears” to be either fat32 or NTFS to the computer that it connects to (user selectable, and easy to switch without reformatting).

For me, nNovia wins hands down in terms of data security, and also in terms of command simplicity, and ergonomics. The controls on the end, instead of the face, made it easier to fabricate a tripod mount. The nNovia hard drive is so well shock mounted, that I simply cannot detect a hard drive running in the case.. no sound, no vibration.

Also, I recommend a Tekkeon MP3450 battery to power either unit.

G. Lee Gordon · March 14th, 2008, 03:19 PM

Can I record 720/24 HDV and transfer it right into FCP?

Jordan Orberg · March 17th, 2008, 09:38 AM

Terry --
Thanks for your comments. I've been looking for a way to record video without tapes, but I use both mac and pc. I've experienced the horrors of the FAT32.....

Josh Chesarek · March 27th, 2008, 09:26 AM

I have been using the QCHD120 from Nnovia and even written a review on my site which was republished here in the Articles section. The Nnovia unit has been working well for me over the last month and when used together with the Small camera mount it is easy to use and the cannon G battery lasts all day no problem. It is easy to use as the screen and bottons are on the front so there is no trying to look on top of the camera to see the screen or anything. The biggest part for me though was the support for NTFS which means long shots are all in one file, plus the fact that you pick NTFS or Fat 32 after filming.

Randy Johnson · March 28th, 2008, 10:19 PM

I have a question does the nnovia drive communitcate with the GY-HD100 like the Firestore Dr-1000 does? Do you get Timecode? Talleys? disc remain? Etc.?

March 13th, 2008, 12:30 PM	#1
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	Focus Enhancement Vrs Nnovia Which is better and why? If there is already a thread for this please guide me there. Note: I edit with Mac FCP and PC Vegas. My cameras are the JVC HD-200 and Sony vx2000. Use both SD and HDV. 720/24 & 1080/60. __________________ "Get Er Done!!!"

March 13th, 2008, 01:13 PM	#3
Vic Owen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 540	Bill-- I found your comments were interesting. While I haven't experienced the drops after 45 minutes that you mentioned, I've never been able to solve the problem of audio glitches at the automatic clip boundaries when making continuous recordings (e.g., a stage performance). This has been true with both my original FS-1 (with different hard drives), and my FS-4. Matt McEwen worked with me quite a bit on the problem, but it was never resolved. It's only apparent in the audio path -- the video is fine. On an expanded timeline in FCP, you can see 1-2 audio frames missing. (Apparent in FCP-4, 4.5, 5 & 6) My solution has been to cut-in a short clip from the DV tape at the clip junctions. Other than that, I've had very few glitches with either Firestore unit. __________________ -- Vic Owen --

March 14th, 2008, 03:19 PM	#8
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	Can I record 720/24 HDV and transfer it right into FCP? __________________ "Get Er Done!!!"

March 13th, 2008, 12:40 PM	#2
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I'm using both. The nNovia is much better made than the Firestore. However, Vegas seems to have a problem handling clips from nNovia. I've contacted both Sony and nNovia customer support about the dropped frames. Sony blames nNovia, nNovia blames Sony...LOL The firestore is considerably cheaper than the nNovia unit. altho' the nNovia unit uses replaceable hard drives and has a solid state drive option. Experience on long record sessions with the Firestore, it will drop frames about 45 minutes into the record process. At least, this has been my experience. Seems none of these solutions are perfect. I'm waiting for Cineform to release SOLID...a solid state recording device. No moving parts.

March 13th, 2008, 01:22 PM	#4
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Vic... It wasn't just dropped frames....an entire 2 gig clip was corrupted and unuseable. I have a theory it's related to a very poor IEEE1394 connector design, but, I can't be sure. I can''t trust the firestore unit and never run it without tape as a backup.

March 14th, 2008, 01:27 PM	#7
Terry Martin Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 100	Lee, The short answer to your original question is nNovia, because of the disk file system. Both companies make multiple models, and ultimate usefulness and features may vary with different cameras, frame rates and NLEs. In my case I shoot only HDV 60i with Canon XH A1 and HV20 cameras and edit with Avid XP. I tried a Firestore FS-C for a day, returned it, and got an nNovia QC HD40 (which was much cheaper than the FS-C.) Consider this argument. It is common to just record directly to a laptop with good results (and free software). But who would ever want to use a laptop formatted in fat32? Firestore is formatted in fat32 probably because it is the cheapest way to get a mac/pc compatible disk. So the firestore fat32 disk forces file brakes at the 2 Gig limit. Simply loading sequential files into an HDV timeline will loose about one half second at each break point, unless you use dos commands at the computer level to generate a large file from the smaller ones before going to Avid… a real pain in any case. NNovia, however, uses neither fat32 or NTFS. They developed their own file system designed around video recording, with built in safeguards. The clever little unit then “appears” to be either fat32 or NTFS to the computer that it connects to (user selectable, and easy to switch without reformatting). For me, nNovia wins hands down in terms of data security, and also in terms of command simplicity, and ergonomics. The controls on the end, instead of the face, made it easier to fabricate a tripod mount. The nNovia hard drive is so well shock mounted, that I simply cannot detect a hard drive running in the case.. no sound, no vibration. Also, I recommend a Tekkeon MP3450 battery to power either unit.

March 17th, 2008, 09:38 AM	#9
Jordan Orberg Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Redmond, Virginia Posts: 84	Terry -- Thanks for your comments. I've been looking for a way to record video without tapes, but I use both mac and pc. I've experienced the horrors of the FAT32.....

March 27th, 2008, 09:26 AM	#10
Josh Chesarek Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 978	I have been using the QCHD120 from Nnovia and even written a review on my site which was republished here in the Articles section. The Nnovia unit has been working well for me over the last month and when used together with the Small camera mount it is easy to use and the cannon G battery lasts all day no problem. It is easy to use as the screen and bottons are on the front so there is no trying to look on top of the camera to see the screen or anything. The biggest part for me though was the support for NTFS which means long shots are all in one file, plus the fact that you pick NTFS or Fat 32 after filming.

March 28th, 2008, 10:19 PM	#11
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	I have a question does the nnovia drive communitcate with the GY-HD100 like the Firestore Dr-1000 does? Do you get Timecode? Talleys? disc remain? Etc.?