Looking for Analog to Digital Tapeless High Shock System at DVinfo.net

Dan Shaffner · September 6th, 2005, 04:31 PM

I am tring to do tapeless digital recording from 2 analog lipstick cameras mounted on a racing motorcycle.

I need a small, 12volt or less, Low power. Accepts analog input. and records to Hard drive.

Must withstand lots of vibration, and high shock environment.

Hopefully have some sort of wired remote for start and stop of recording, so that I can shock mount the recorder in a safe place (under seat) that will survive a high speed crash. Mounting in a safe place precludes the use of front panel controls, so I need some sort of remote trigger.

Cameras are high res 500 Lines, output through a digital video switch (digital relay). as the original magnetic relay vibrated so much that it didn't pass any video. The relay is controled from a handle bar mounted switch to select forward or rearward video sources.

I have tried Neverst Solo recorder by Volicon www.volicon.com
but software issue kept the recorder from working for me.

Dan Euritt · September 6th, 2005, 05:56 PM

i think that sort of thing is typically done with a helmet cam and a recorder mounted in a backpack or beltpack that the driver carries.

do you know of anyone who has actually done the recording with a hard drive? i'd think that it would need to be really well padded to survive.

what i did was use a solid state mpeg2 video camera with analog inputs... nowadays i'd be looking at those two jvc mpeg2 video cameras, i think that they have analog inputs(?)... the biggest problem might be how to hook up a remote trigger, i don't know if it'll be possible to do that.

Dan Shaffner · September 7th, 2005, 01:20 AM

Don't like the view from the helemt cam, you see way out in front of the bike, when you are looking through the the corner, and loose the lean of the machine. You typically hold your head level, and are looking way around the corner. This means if you are following a bike very close, you don't even see it.

The New JVC don't have analog inputs, I already checked them out.

I have already been able to get it to work with the Panasonic Dsnap AV-100. At this point I am just looking for longer recording time. I can only use a 1gb SD card with the D-snap.

I run 4 and 6 hour endurance races, and would like to not have to mess with it.

Giroud Francois · September 7th, 2005, 02:31 AM

you can find a mpeg2 recorder with analog input, used for formula 1 race.
it is recording on memeory and got no mechanical or moving parts.
unfortunately it is very expensive.
http://www.stackinc.com/dvrharsh.html

optex is doing the same kind of device on a microdive disk.
you can probably replace the drive with a high capacity compact flash.
http://www.optexint.com/sales/covert/sting.html

Dan Shaffner · September 7th, 2005, 10:41 AM

Aim sports makes a system I want to get, but no recorder.

So I am looking for a good recorder, and will probably ge the Aim Sytem later

http://www.aimsports.com/products/david/index.html

http://www.aim-sportline.com/MOTO/pl...htm#MXLbecause

After I have made some money with the system, I plan on buying the Aimsports MXL Pista Data aquisition, and Video overlay slave kit. Witch will take two camera inputs, and overlay them with data aquisition displays.

About 2800 for the whole package, but I would still need a good recorder. The stack is awsome but goes for over 5000 alone. then my video system would cost almost as much as my race bike... Hard to justify.

John Mitchell · September 7th, 2005, 07:18 PM

Does this fit the bill?

http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp...&search=0&off=

I imagine you could use the Laird shock mount with it.

Dan Shaffner · September 7th, 2005, 07:38 PM

I have read the reviews and the thread on the Nnovia A2D on this site.

I am very interested, and have e-mailed the Nnovia rep, and asked questions about the remote trigger, and shock issues.

I hope it works, because it looks pretty good so far.

Thanks for the link to a good price for one!

Dan

Dan Euritt · September 8th, 2005, 11:32 AM

it will be very difficult, nay impossible, to keep a hard drive alive when it's mounted to a dirt bike.

i also used the av-100 for onboard camera recording, in fact i was the mod for the av-100 forum that is now offline :-( i don't recall any 1 gb limitations on the memory card, but then there weren't very many big memory cards available at the time... there would also be heat issues with running that setup for such an extended period of time.

here is an example of what i recorded to the av-100, give it a minute to download: http://www.oceanstreetvideo.com/import/import.html

that's bad news about the jvc... but there are better alternatives: www.ffv.com ...analog inputs, variable bitrates, etc... call 'em up and see what they are doing with flash drives that plug in like hard drives... bitmicro and others are selling this ide flash drive technology to the government, and the price just keeps dropping.

Dan Shaffner · September 8th, 2005, 11:54 AM

I am actually running street race bikes, not Dirt, no Jumping requirred, just higher speeds, and more vibration.

The FFV looks good, but they want 5k+ for it. Just do damn expensive for what I am doing.

I bought a 2gig card for my Panasonic, with 150x read write. won't go to mpeg2 mode.

Called Panasonic, they said 1gig max, and must be Panasonic, won't support non panansoni Cards.. that sucks!

So I am looking again, if it would take 2gigs, I would be done, and forget about looking for more.... My damn delema!

Richard Townsend · September 8th, 2005, 05:59 PM

There is a firmware update for the panasonic. They just don't want anyone in the U.S. to know, I guess.
I bought two 2 gig Sandisk SDs from memoryonthemove.com and told Michael that they wouldn't run mpeg2. He kindly forwarded the zip file with the update. If you can't get it from him, I will find it and email it to you. It's about 2 megs.
With 2 gigs I can get 40+ minutes of full resolution or over an hour and twenty minutes at half resolution.

Richard Townsend

Dan Euritt · September 8th, 2005, 10:24 PM

that firmware upgrade for the av-100 is on the panasonic website somewhere... there is actually a half-baked factory support page for the av-100.

good to hear that the bigger cards work, thanks for the feedback.

dan, i don't think that the ffv is anywhere near $5k, depending on which model we are talking about... where did you get your pricing at? i've seen european price lists at $1,7xx-$2,4xx, but that was in british pounds(?)

Dan Shaffner · September 9th, 2005, 12:35 AM

I talked to sales guy at FFV about 6 months ago, he qouted be some were in the 5k area retial, didn't do a lot of discount shopping since I didn't think there would be a 300% mark up to a retailer to make it affordable to me, so I dropped it.

It looks awsome though, wish they were less $$$

Looks like the AV-100 firmware upgrade will be the ticket for me.

Please send to

dan@carlburger.com if anyone has it

Thanks

Dan

Richard Townsend · September 9th, 2005, 08:09 AM

I bought the mini-dvr from FFV couple of months ago. Cost was about 3500.
plus I added two 6 gig hitachi microdrives. The quality is great. Compression at 6or7 is what I use for normal stuff. runs a little over an hour. For long shoots as back up where I can drop the quality without too much loss 8-10 to one I get two hours of run time. The hitachi microdrives cost about 400 each.

Richard

Dan Shaffner · September 9th, 2005, 09:39 AM

I did a liitle googling last night, and found the update, here is a link,

Installed in my Recorder, and viola 41 minutes on high quality MPEG2 for 2 gig card..

Happy happy, thanks every body, I appreciate all the help!!!!

http://zyvid.com/smf/index.php?PHPSE...c757&topic=7.0

I am going to be racing next weekend, will post a link to some footage, see what you all think!

Dan

Roger Moore · September 9th, 2005, 09:40 AM

Is this the kind of racing footage you'll be doing?

http://www.pashnit.com/cam-mount.htm

http://www.sportbikecam.com/

Check out the video samples. http://www.sportbikecam.com/pictures.htm

However, they are using regular camcorders instead of bullet cam/pvr.

I wouldn't mount a PVR on the bike - maybe mounting it on the body would protect that component from vibration. But I'm not sure whether a wire hanging between the rider and the bike when the bike is going at speed is a danger or a mere nuisance or not a factor at all.

I know tapeless is wonderful, but in this situation I don't think you can beat a couple of cheap camcorders for simplicity, durability and compactness.

Last thing, I'm not sure about the resolution of the bullet cam. I suspect shooting with a low-end camcorder would yield a better picture.

Happy racing!

September 6th, 2005, 04:31 PM	#1
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	Looking for Analog to Digital Tapeless High Shock System I am tring to do tapeless digital recording from 2 analog lipstick cameras mounted on a racing motorcycle. I need a small, 12volt or less, Low power. Accepts analog input. and records to Hard drive. Must withstand lots of vibration, and high shock environment. Hopefully have some sort of wired remote for start and stop of recording, so that I can shock mount the recorder in a safe place (under seat) that will survive a high speed crash. Mounting in a safe place precludes the use of front panel controls, so I need some sort of remote trigger. Cameras are high res 500 Lines, output through a digital video switch (digital relay). as the original magnetic relay vibrated so much that it didn't pass any video. The relay is controled from a handle bar mounted switch to select forward or rearward video sources. I have tried Neverst Solo recorder by Volicon www.volicon.com but software issue kept the recorder from working for me.

September 7th, 2005, 01:20 AM	#3
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	Can't use them and pass tech.. Don't like the view from the helemt cam, you see way out in front of the bike, when you are looking through the the corner, and loose the lean of the machine. You typically hold your head level, and are looking way around the corner. This means if you are following a bike very close, you don't even see it. The New JVC don't have analog inputs, I already checked them out. I have already been able to get it to work with the Panasonic Dsnap AV-100. At this point I am just looking for longer recording time. I can only use a 1gb SD card with the D-snap. I run 4 and 6 hour endurance races, and would like to not have to mess with it.

September 7th, 2005, 10:41 AM	#5
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	The Stack stuff is Great, But way too pricey. Aim sports makes a system I want to get, but no recorder. So I am looking for a good recorder, and will probably ge the Aim Sytem later http://www.aimsports.com/products/david/index.html http://www.aim-sportline.com/MOTO/pl...htm#MXLbecause After I have made some money with the system, I plan on buying the Aimsports MXL Pista Data aquisition, and Video overlay slave kit. Witch will take two camera inputs, and overlay them with data aquisition displays. About 2800 for the whole package, but I would still need a good recorder. The stack is awsome but goes for over 5000 alone. then my video system would cost almost as much as my race bike... Hard to justify.

September 7th, 2005, 07:38 PM	#7
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	Very interested in the Nnovia A2D I have read the reviews and the thread on the Nnovia A2D on this site. I am very interested, and have e-mailed the Nnovia rep, and asked questions about the remote trigger, and shock issues. I hope it works, because it looks pretty good so far. Thanks for the link to a good price for one! Dan

September 8th, 2005, 11:54 AM	#9
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	Street Bikes, not dirt.. No jumping I am actually running street race bikes, not Dirt, no Jumping requirred, just higher speeds, and more vibration. The FFV looks good, but they want 5k+ for it. Just do damn expensive for what I am doing. I bought a 2gig card for my Panasonic, with 150x read write. won't go to mpeg2 mode. Called Panasonic, they said 1gig max, and must be Panasonic, won't support non panansoni Cards.. that sucks! So I am looking again, if it would take 2gigs, I would be done, and forget about looking for more.... My damn delema!

September 6th, 2005, 05:56 PM	#2
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i think that sort of thing is typically done with a helmet cam and a recorder mounted in a backpack or beltpack that the driver carries. do you know of anyone who has actually done the recording with a hard drive? i'd think that it would need to be really well padded to survive. what i did was use a solid state mpeg2 video camera with analog inputs... nowadays i'd be looking at those two jvc mpeg2 video cameras, i think that they have analog inputs(?)... the biggest problem might be how to hook up a remote trigger, i don't know if it'll be possible to do that.

September 7th, 2005, 02:31 AM	#4
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	you can find a mpeg2 recorder with analog input, used for formula 1 race. it is recording on memeory and got no mechanical or moving parts. unfortunately it is very expensive. http://www.stackinc.com/dvrharsh.html optex is doing the same kind of device on a microdive disk. you can probably replace the drive with a high capacity compact flash. http://www.optexint.com/sales/covert/sting.html

September 7th, 2005, 07:18 PM	#6
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	Does this fit the bill? http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp...&search=0&off= I imagine you could use the Laird shock mount with it.

September 8th, 2005, 11:32 AM	#8
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	it will be very difficult, nay impossible, to keep a hard drive alive when it's mounted to a dirt bike. i also used the av-100 for onboard camera recording, in fact i was the mod for the av-100 forum that is now offline :-( i don't recall any 1 gb limitations on the memory card, but then there weren't very many big memory cards available at the time... there would also be heat issues with running that setup for such an extended period of time. here is an example of what i recorded to the av-100, give it a minute to download: http://www.oceanstreetvideo.com/import/import.html that's bad news about the jvc... but there are better alternatives: www.ffv.com ...analog inputs, variable bitrates, etc... call 'em up and see what they are doing with flash drives that plug in like hard drives... bitmicro and others are selling this ide flash drive technology to the government, and the price just keeps dropping.

September 8th, 2005, 05:59 PM	#10
Richard Townsend Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2	There is a firmware update for the panasonic. They just don't want anyone in the U.S. to know, I guess. I bought two 2 gig Sandisk SDs from memoryonthemove.com and told Michael that they wouldn't run mpeg2. He kindly forwarded the zip file with the update. If you can't get it from him, I will find it and email it to you. It's about 2 megs. With 2 gigs I can get 40+ minutes of full resolution or over an hour and twenty minutes at half resolution. Richard Townsend

September 8th, 2005, 10:24 PM	#11
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	that firmware upgrade for the av-100 is on the panasonic website somewhere... there is actually a half-baked factory support page for the av-100. good to hear that the bigger cards work, thanks for the feedback. dan, i don't think that the ffv is anywhere near $5k, depending on which model we are talking about... where did you get your pricing at? i've seen european price lists at $1,7xx-$2,4xx, but that was in british pounds(?)

September 9th, 2005, 12:35 AM	#12
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	I called FFV about 6 months ago I talked to sales guy at FFV about 6 months ago, he qouted be some were in the 5k area retial, didn't do a lot of discount shopping since I didn't think there would be a 300% mark up to a retailer to make it affordable to me, so I dropped it. It looks awsome though, wish they were less $$$ Looks like the AV-100 firmware upgrade will be the ticket for me. Please send to dan@carlburger.com if anyone has it Thanks Dan

September 9th, 2005, 08:09 AM	#13
Richard Townsend Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2	I bought the mini-dvr from FFV couple of months ago. Cost was about 3500. plus I added two 6 gig hitachi microdrives. The quality is great. Compression at 6or7 is what I use for normal stuff. runs a little over an hour. For long shoots as back up where I can drop the quality without too much loss 8-10 to one I get two hours of run time. The hitachi microdrives cost about 400 each. Richard

September 9th, 2005, 09:39 AM	#14
Dan Shaffner New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 20	Found the SV-Av100 Update I did a liitle googling last night, and found the update, here is a link, Installed in my Recorder, and viola 41 minutes on high quality MPEG2 for 2 gig card.. Happy happy, thanks every body, I appreciate all the help!!!! http://zyvid.com/smf/index.php?PHPSE...c757&topic=7.0 I am going to be racing next weekend, will post a link to some footage, see what you all think! Dan

September 9th, 2005, 09:40 AM	#15
Roger Moore Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: toronto Posts: 99	Is this the kind of racing footage you'll be doing? http://www.pashnit.com/cam-mount.htm http://www.sportbikecam.com/ Check out the video samples. http://www.sportbikecam.com/pictures.htm However, they are using regular camcorders instead of bullet cam/pvr. I wouldn't mount a PVR on the bike - maybe mounting it on the body would protect that component from vibration. But I'm not sure whether a wire hanging between the rider and the bike when the bike is going at speed is a danger or a mere nuisance or not a factor at all. I know tapeless is wonderful, but in this situation I don't think you can beat a couple of cheap camcorders for simplicity, durability and compactness. Last thing, I'm not sure about the resolution of the bullet cam. I suspect shooting with a low-end camcorder would yield a better picture. Happy racing!