Question re: nNovia and the HVX... at DVinfo.net

Denis Danatzko · September 13th, 2007, 06:18 AM

everything I've read says nNovia products will only record DV, not HD.

Does that mean only DV25? Has anyone tried it w/DVCPRO50? Since that's still standard def, I was wondering if it would work.

All input based on experience is welcome.

Thanks.

Chris Medico · September 15th, 2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denis Danatzko

everything I've read says nNovia products will only record DV, not HD.

Does that mean only DV25? Has anyone tried it w/DVCPRO50? Since that's still standard def, I was wondering if it would work.

All input based on experience is welcome.

Thanks.

I have some of the QCDeck A2D2 units and it records analog, DV, or HDV. The unit only supports the 25mbit flavors so DVCPRO50 won't work.

I absolutely love these things for doing my bullet cam work. I even took one white water rafting in a waterproof bag and it worked great.

The quality of the video is certainly good enough. Footage from my stuff was shown on Country Music Television in July and next month you'll see what we shot yesterday on 20-20.

Chris

Denis Danatzko · September 16th, 2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Medico

I have some of the QCDeck A2D2 units and it records analog, DV, or HDV. The unit only supports the 25mbit flavors so DVCPRO50 won't work.

That's what I feared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Medico

I even took one white water rafting in a waterproof bag and it worked great.
Chris

Wow... that's brave.

A ringing endorsement...thanks.

I'm looking for something that I can use for backup recording of legal video, which requires date/time stamp, so it looks like I'm relegated to composite out, 'cause (per Barry's book) the HVX doesn't put date/time stamp out via 1394.

Thanks again.

Chris Medico · September 16th, 2007, 10:05 AM

I'll have to check and see if my V1 puts the date/time stamp in the firewire stream.

Kenny Shem · September 30th, 2007, 10:57 AM

Anyone tried that with a glidecam? I intend to strap it at the base plate, replacing the weights. Any comments?

Chris Medico · September 30th, 2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Shem

Anyone tried that with a glidecam? I intend to strap it at the base plate, replacing the weights. Any comments?

I've not done it with my nNoiva recorder but I have done it with my Sony DR60 on the Glidecam 2000. Worked VERY well actually. The DR60 is so light that I couldn't take all the weight off of the bottom of the glidecam when using the V1U but it did bring the overall weight of the V1 dressed out on the glidecam to about 8lbs. About a 2lb savings.

I would recommend trying it and let us know how it works!

Chris

Kit Hannah · January 26th, 2008, 12:25 PM

We have had conversations with Nnovia and they seem to hint at the fact that their DVCPRO Support will be coming out very shortly.

Currently, they will ALL record a DV stream, and the HD versions will record a HDV stream. We gave up on the firestores because they were so big and clunky, and there were reliability issues with them. Nnovia seems to have much better features, definitely a much better form factor (especially if you are using AB or IDX batteries), and a much more robust system. They say that their "new products" will be firmware updates to their existing hardware. They also say that the upgrades have always been free and hopefully it will be the case with DVCPRO.

For the XL-H1 though, I would recommend the QC-HD, or the QC HD Deck. The DEck version is similar but adds in removeable media packs (Hard Drives) which is super nice because you can just replace it and keep recording. And the hard drives are very cheap in comparison to the Firestore. I think the 40 gig version of the FS4 is around $600, but upgrade to the 100-160GB and you're jumping up anothe $1200-$1400, just for the hard drive and some firmware.

For a 120GB media pack for the Nnovia, it's only $299. You could buy 3 of those for the same price as the upgraded firestore. Just makes more sense to me. I think the regular QC-HD is around $1000 with a 120GB. A comparable firestore is much more expensive.

Basically, we're ordering 2 of the Nnovia QC-HD Decks in anticipation that they will be supporting DVCPRO HD, but for now we'll record a regular DV stream when using them from our HPX500's.

Yeo Wee Han · January 27th, 2008, 10:31 AM

Hi Denis and Kit,

Thank you all very much for your advice and opinions. Yes, Firestore's increase in price from a 60gb to a 100gb is disgusting and totally a turnoff. It is however good to see that nNovia are working on their products though that may not be affecting the H1 in any way (which records in HDV).

Any other opinions?

Cheers

WeeHan

Kit Hannah · January 27th, 2008, 10:42 AM

Nnovia QC-HD and QC-HD Decks ALREADY DO HDV. It's the DVCPRO HD they don't have support for yet. So the Nnovia should be ready to go for you right out of the box.

Just to reiterate, the Nnovia products WILL work with your Canon RIGHT NOW. It's just Panasonic that they won't be compatible with yet.

Kit

Yeo Wee Han · January 28th, 2008, 06:57 AM

Yup Kit,

What I meant was the "improvements" will not matter to me much at all. :) Looks like I will be going the route of the nNovia.

Does the QC HD Deck comes with a Mediapac. On the website, it is just stated that it comes with a AC adaptor. Thus I assume that the Mediapac is a separate purchase and I will need to get a battery as well since it does not come with any?

Cheers

WeeHan

Kit Hannah · January 28th, 2008, 04:44 PM

I don't believe it does. But I think it may come with some accessories, but I have not gotten mine yet. You can call Nnovia and ask - I thought the last time they said it comes with a bag and a battery too or something, but you'll have to ask.
Thanks
Kit

Yeo Wee Han · January 29th, 2008, 02:22 AM

Thanks once again Kit. nNovia have replied my email and Im awaiting their reply regarding whether the Mediapacs and batteries are included. Will be looking at the Sony F-mount battery as a very portable solution.

Cheers

WeeHan

Denis Danatzko · February 11th, 2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kit Hannah

...we're ordering 2 of the Nnovia QC-HD Decks in anticipation that they will be supporting DVCPRO HD, but for now we'll record a regular DV stream when using them from our HPX500's.

Have you rec'd your QC decks yet?

You anticipate that the QC will be able to handle DVCPRO and better, but (not to ruin your day), I'd be skeptical they'd do that. Here's my reasoning:
the QC deck allows for changing-out disk drives, yet it's not disk drives that process the DVCPRO/PRO50/PRO100 footage. I thought that would be done via updateable firmware or fixed software residing within the chips in the deck. I don't know the capabilities of those chips, but my concern is they might be incapable of handling the requirements of DVCPRO/50/100. I.E. might "faster", "bigger", or simply "different" chips be required for the higher-res codecs? If so, then the current QC deck for DV25 and HDV might not work for the higher res codecs; if not, then nNovia would have to supply updated firmware. I have no idea at all if they're ready to make that available, though I suspect they're fully aware of it.

My last contact from nNovia hinted that some word would be released sometime in Jan, but I recently sent a follow-up inquiry to them about the DVCPRO/50/100 products, and as yet have rec'd no reply.

I hope you didn't "jump the gun" by anticipating that the current QC Deck would "automatically" be able to process the higher-res codecs. Did you ask nNovia about that before buying?

Kit Hannah · February 13th, 2008, 10:22 AM

Well, Denis,
we decided to hold off on the Decks and order 2 more 32GB P2 Cards instead. The reason we went this route is because of a couple reasons:

#1 They won't be available for another few weeks to ship from our dealer, and we would need them sooner..

#2 - The biggest reason - I KNOW that they will be coming out with DVCPRO HD support because we're slated to be beta testers for it. We're only about 100 miles from them and most of what we do is field production work. We have had multiple discussions with Nnovia and it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". Hopefully by NAB, they'll be rolling something out. If that's the case, I'll probably bring one of our HPX500's out to Vegas to showcase it.

So I have not jumped the gun on anything. I see what you are saying about the processing, but I think it will be a firmware issue, not a hardware. If you take a look at the Focus Enhancements stuff, I believe their decks are all the same internally. HDV takes much more processing power than DVCPRO HD does because of the way it is compressed. That's always been one of people's gripes with HDV.

We'll see what happens in the upcoming weeks.

September 16th, 2007, 10:05 AM	#4
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	I'll have to check and see if my V1 puts the date/time stamp in the firewire stream. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

September 13th, 2007, 06:18 AM	#1
Denis Danatzko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC Metro area Posts: 579	Question re: nNovia and the HVX... everything I've read says nNovia products will only record DV, not HD. Does that mean only DV25? Has anyone tried it w/DVCPRO50? Since that's still standard def, I was wondering if it would work. All input based on experience is welcome. Thanks. __________________ Denis ------------ Our actions are based on our own experience and knowledge. Thus, no one is ever totally right, nor totally wrong. We simply act from what we "know" to be true, based on that experience and knowledge. Beyond that, we pose questions to others.

September 30th, 2007, 10:57 AM	#5
Kenny Shem Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Anyone tried that with a glidecam? I intend to strap it at the base plate, replacing the weights. Any comments?

January 26th, 2008, 12:25 PM	#7
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	We have had conversations with Nnovia and they seem to hint at the fact that their DVCPRO Support will be coming out very shortly. Currently, they will ALL record a DV stream, and the HD versions will record a HDV stream. We gave up on the firestores because they were so big and clunky, and there were reliability issues with them. Nnovia seems to have much better features, definitely a much better form factor (especially if you are using AB or IDX batteries), and a much more robust system. They say that their "new products" will be firmware updates to their existing hardware. They also say that the upgrades have always been free and hopefully it will be the case with DVCPRO. For the XL-H1 though, I would recommend the QC-HD, or the QC HD Deck. The DEck version is similar but adds in removeable media packs (Hard Drives) which is super nice because you can just replace it and keep recording. And the hard drives are very cheap in comparison to the Firestore. I think the 40 gig version of the FS4 is around $600, but upgrade to the 100-160GB and you're jumping up anothe $1200-$1400, just for the hard drive and some firmware. For a 120GB media pack for the Nnovia, it's only $299. You could buy 3 of those for the same price as the upgraded firestore. Just makes more sense to me. I think the regular QC-HD is around $1000 with a 120GB. A comparable firestore is much more expensive. Basically, we're ordering 2 of the Nnovia QC-HD Decks in anticipation that they will be supporting DVCPRO HD, but for now we'll record a regular DV stream when using them from our HPX500's.

January 27th, 2008, 10:31 AM	#8
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Hi Denis and Kit, Thank you all very much for your advice and opinions. Yes, Firestore's increase in price from a 60gb to a 100gb is disgusting and totally a turnoff. It is however good to see that nNovia are working on their products though that may not be affecting the H1 in any way (which records in HDV). Any other opinions? Cheers WeeHan

January 27th, 2008, 10:42 AM	#9
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	Nnovia QC-HD and QC-HD Decks ALREADY DO HDV. It's the DVCPRO HD they don't have support for yet. So the Nnovia should be ready to go for you right out of the box. Just to reiterate, the Nnovia products WILL work with your Canon RIGHT NOW. It's just Panasonic that they won't be compatible with yet. Kit

January 28th, 2008, 06:57 AM	#10
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Yup Kit, What I meant was the "improvements" will not matter to me much at all. :) Looks like I will be going the route of the nNovia. Does the QC HD Deck comes with a Mediapac. On the website, it is just stated that it comes with a AC adaptor. Thus I assume that the Mediapac is a separate purchase and I will need to get a battery as well since it does not come with any? Cheers WeeHan

January 28th, 2008, 04:44 PM	#11
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	I don't believe it does. But I think it may come with some accessories, but I have not gotten mine yet. You can call Nnovia and ask - I thought the last time they said it comes with a bag and a battery too or something, but you'll have to ask. Thanks Kit

January 29th, 2008, 02:22 AM	#12
Yeo Wee Han Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 155	Thanks once again Kit. nNovia have replied my email and Im awaiting their reply regarding whether the Mediapacs and batteries are included. Will be looking at the Sony F-mount battery as a very portable solution. Cheers WeeHan

February 13th, 2008, 10:22 AM	#14
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	Well, Denis, we decided to hold off on the Decks and order 2 more 32GB P2 Cards instead. The reason we went this route is because of a couple reasons: #1 They won't be available for another few weeks to ship from our dealer, and we would need them sooner.. #2 - The biggest reason - I KNOW that they will be coming out with DVCPRO HD support because we're slated to be beta testers for it. We're only about 100 miles from them and most of what we do is field production work. We have had multiple discussions with Nnovia and it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". Hopefully by NAB, they'll be rolling something out. If that's the case, I'll probably bring one of our HPX500's out to Vegas to showcase it. So I have not jumped the gun on anything. I see what you are saying about the processing, but I think it will be a firmware issue, not a hardware. If you take a look at the Focus Enhancements stuff, I believe their decks are all the same internally. HDV takes much more processing power than DVCPRO HD does because of the way it is compressed. That's always been one of people's gripes with HDV. We'll see what happens in the upcoming weeks.