Stereo3D Toolbox with FCE

[Pavel Houda]

Tim, thank you for the suggestions. I don't know of a way to set field dominance in FCE for AVCHD, just DV can be set to "upper field first/lower field first", no option for "none". FCE doesn't have Motion 4, the issue must be with the new QT. I am not using adobe S/W @ the moment. If you or anyone else has some suggestions, these are greatly appreciated and will be tested. The more I observe my results, the more it seems you are correct that interlacing is somehow involved. The Sony's (HDR-SR11) I am using are definitely running at 59.94i, but I don't know what to do about it. Do you have any suggestions? Should I try to de-interlace the clips before I use them in FCE? FCE seems much more stripped with respect to FCP than what I heard. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd really like to hear them. I would love to be able to generate BD's with the checkerboard pattern, to distribute as test discs, etc....

[Pavel Houda]

Thanks to Tim Dashwood's tireless support, I made great progress this weekend in getting beautiful 3D out of the DLP/Laser TV sets. What works: The anaglyph outputs work (the picture quality is limited by the techchnique), but the side-by side output provides much higher quality, colors, etc. so that is what I concentrated on. I still have to output h264.mov to a PC where I convert the files to WMV.wmv files to be played with Peter Wimmer's Stereoscopic Player (3dtv.at), via HDMI into the TV's. The results are great, limited by my cinematography skills, not by the technology. I would wish if I didn't have to go the PC way, but I cannot get the video out of the FCE or QT to pixel align with the TV, so I can see both images with either eye and see no stereo effect, of course. I cannot get consistent over&under scaling and the line interleaved output doesn't seem to work with Peter Wimmer's player. Tim said that he will look into FCE this month. Actually I would prefer to distribute on BD's but cannot generate discs with the pixels alligned/3D effect with neither the Toast 10 nor the Revolver. Don't exactly know why. By the time the h.264 to WMV converter deals with the stream, it is 1920x1080x29.97p, so no interlacing should be involved either. So the results are mixed at the moment, but there is a solution that works really well. Many special thanks to Tim Dashwood for his continuous help. If anyone else has a simplier solution that works, please post the details.

[Pavel Houda]

I decided to un-post the first try of 3D anaglyph. Thank you.

[Pavel Houda]

I fixed up the data rates, etc. and re-posted on Vimeo: San Clemente, CA - R&C Anaglyph on Vimeo , and on YouTube: YouTube - YT NA 264 proj. The Stereo3D Toolbox did a great job for posted material. This is mainly for those interested in a bit more budget-oriented solution, such as myself. Any constructive criticism is appreciated. Thank you.

[Simon Woodgate]

Hi Tim,

I'm trying out the plugin with FCP7.0. I have two nested sequences on a new timeline. Applied the plugin to sequence 1 and chose sequence 2 as right image.
If I choose side by side as the output mode, I get perfect 2:1 squeezed side by side. If I choose any of the anaglyph modes I only get the left eye showing! (i.e, just a red image)
I've tried other clips, restarting, and adding/removing the plugin but cannot get anaglyph to work! This is in snow leopard.

On another matter, can any users recommend a dlp TV around the £1500 mark that will accept checkerboard from FCP? It seems there is a lot of choice in the US, but for some reason whenever I think I've found a suitable model in the UK it ends up as 'discontinued'.

[Tim Dashwood]

Simon. Can you please zip and email me your FCP project file? I can probably better understand exactly what's going on if I can see how you have it all set up.
This is the first I've heard of this sort of issue.

As for the TV question...you should look for any DLP that has the 3-pin 3D sync output on the back and has a native resolution of 1920x1080. I just picked up a Samsung Plasma PN50B450 for $900 at Best Buy, but it's resolution is 1360x768 so it isn't working perfectly with the plugin with sources at a higher resolution. The A450 and B450 series Plasmas (not LCD) support checkerboard input. The B450 seems to also accept interlaced input. 720p source material is great but 1080p is cropped. I'm working on a solution for this particular model.

[Simon Woodgate]

Thanks Tim, I've sent the fcp file to your dvinfo email.

I just ordered a Zalman 22. It seems other people have this model working fine as a preview monitor!

Are either of those plasmas you mention polarized, or do they use the shutter glasses? I was working for a film company recently and they said the glasses eat batteries like...something that uses a lot of batteries. Also they were quite bulky! Am I right in thinking you get a darker image from shutters?

I'm after a large screen passive system! I wonder if anyone makes a revolving polarizing filter to put in front of a standard DLP projector?

[Simon Woodgate]

Strange. I've read other people having success with this monitor, but my MBP doesn't even recognise that a display is attached. Weird thing is, my old powerbook works fine (but isn't fast enough to run FCP in HD)
Anyone else using external monitors for 3D with a MBP?

[Christo Aaron]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Hi Pavel.

I'll repost what I had emailed you earlier today but I will also describe a very basic process if you are just experimenting with some shots (a workflow with more steps or additional software like neo3d would be required for editing a much larger project.)

First off let me say that I do not own Final Cut Express so I'm not familiar with what features are missing that I would normally use in Final Cut Pro. For example, does Final Cut Express have the ability to subclip or does it have the media manager? I'm not sure.

Here's some background on DLP TVs.
We added checkerboard mode specifically for Mitsubishi's DLP 3D mode. For those interested here's the white paper on DLP's 3D mode.
Most of the DLP 3D-capable monitors have a native resolution of 1920 x1080 so it is best if you shoot in that mode or uprez your footage to that resolution. (nesting can also be used to do this.) I'm not sure if Final Cut Express can output 1920x1080 to the second monitor (via "Digital Cinema Desktop Preview - RAW" or a capture card.) If it does then connect your DLP and make sure the resolution is set for 1920x1080. If you are using your graphics card then you may have to go into display settings and check the resolution.
If FCE doesn't have the ability to output a live signal then you can still master a file in 1920x1080 checkerboard and then burn a Blu Ray (adobe encore cs3 or cs4 seems to work well for bluray.)
The shutterglasses are used with DLP 3DTV to sync to the 120Hz output. (60Hz per eye)
There is a little 3-pin "3D" sync port on the back of the DLP 3DTV that sends the signal to a set-top IR transmitter which in-turn sends the sync signal to the active shutterglasses being worn by the viewers.

So now onto the "basics for beginners of shooting footage for 3D with HD cameras" (preferably 1920x1080) and processing it in Stereo3D Toolbox and FCE (or FCP.) [This may seem long but most of it is just common sense stuff I'm including for absolute beginners.]

1. Set both cameras to the exact same settings and turn off image stabilization (this will screw up your convergence later on. Trust me... I've learned the hard way!)
2. Mount the two cameras as close together as you can and always use a wider field of view than you need, you will be zooming in a little bit anyway when you converge later. I recommend that beginner's use a parallel configuration, meaning both cameras are pointing directly straight ahead. Do not "toe-in" to converge on your subject. It will cause you more headaches later.
3. If your screen is big (42" or bigger) then use the 1/60th rule to determine how close your closest subject can be to your cameras. All this means is that you measure the distance between the centre of your two lenses (interaxial distance) and multiply that by 60. If the the distance is 3 inches then you should stay at least 180inches (15 feet) away from your closest subject. (For those shooting for YouTube 3D or the small screen you can use a smaller 1/30 factor.)
4. Use the IR remote for your cameras to trigger them to record and to stop. This may not be perfect but it will get you close.
5. Use a clapper slate or simply stand in front of your shot and clap your hands once. You will use this to confirm sync of your cameras. If you are using consumer cameras that don't have genlock don't expect perfect sync and don't shoot any fast action.
6. Ingest your clips into FCE or FCP. If you are using log and capture I recommend you log everything first and use the clapper as your in point on all clips. Be sure to clearly mark which are left and which are right!!!! Then batch capture.
7. If you only have FCE and not Motion or AE it is important that your clips are starting at the same moment in time - to the frame. You can subclip them to the clapper (CMD + U on FCP) or mark ins to the clapper and use media manage to trim the excess. Also if you didn't record in 1920x1080 and your DLP monitor is 1920x1080 then now would be the time to uprez the footage with media manager.
8. Assuming you've worked out that your left and right clips actually start at the same time it is now time to create a sequence (using the same settings as your clips) and insert the left clip or left subclip.
9. Apply the Stereo3D Toolbox filter to the left clip and open it (by double-clicking on your clip or selecting it and hitting RETURN.)
10. Now drag the right clip into the "right" image well. The default mode will be side by side. You have just successfully merged your right and left clips. It is a good time to scroll to the clapper and make sure both sides are in sync. If they aren't then go back a few steps and check the sync. (BTW this whole sync thing is much simpler with professional systems that can genlock and sync TC!)
11. Now switch the output mode to superimpose and then turn on the convergence tools.
12. Use the convergence tools to first check that the vertical alignment is perfect. This is a must to avoid eye strain. Use something level in the frame for reference. If one camera was tilted you can use the Z or individual rotation controls to fix it. If you had tried to zoom in a bit and one camera was zoomed in a little more than the other use the left and right zoom controls to compensate.
13. Once the vertical alignment is good you can decide what is going to be converged. This is where you use the X axis convergence controller. Whatever object is perfectly converged will appear to the viewer to be at the screen plane, so choose wisely. Also keep in mind that for good 3D any objects between the converged subject and the camera should not be occluded by any edge of the screen. This will cause your brain to go "wait a sec...why are my eyes telling me this object is closer to me than the screen but it is being cut off by the screen?" This is why it is OK to have an object such as a sword, knife, stick, gun, fist, whatever appear to come out of the screen as long as it doesn't touch the edge.
14. When you are happy with the convergence settings you can turn on "autoscale" to get rid of any black borders created by your convergence settings and it is time to test it out. Set your output mode to checkerboard and make sure FCE or FCP is outputting Digital Cinema Desktop Preview in RAW mode to the DLP monitor, which should also be in its raw native resolution.
15. Put on your shutterglasses and enjoy!

By the way I skipped over the ability to colour match the left and right eyes if your cameras weren't set exactly the same but I'll assume they were.

If you want to edit your clips down into a new sequence then use the above methods to make a new sequence for each clip, but set your output mode on each to side by side, over/under or interlace. This will be the intermediate 3D mode used for editing your clips. Drag the sequences (which are stereo clips now) into a new timeline for editing. This is called nesting. Apply another instance of Stereo3D Toolbox to those nested sequences and set the input mode to whatever you used as an output mode before. At this point you can use checkerboard for your output and edit away.

Hello Tim,
I'm loading FCP to test your plug in. My associate editor works with After Effects in the Windows platform. Could you tell me if the demo version is available for him to trial on that Win OS yet? If not, when do you suspect it will be?
Cheers,
Christo